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Dog attacked ewe and lambs at lambing
- Thread starter jambi1214
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jambi1214
Loving the herd life
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jambi1214
Loving the herd life
Then it goes to the pasture. So not certain how I would keep dog next to them without being with them. For now she is in the backyard alone. She was raised with lambs but never around lambing till this year because we got electric fencing around the perimeter so everyone has been out there together.. I guess I could keep her in the backyard at night by herself especially during lambing let her in the pasture with the ewes during the day until we have lambs then I don't know.....
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jambi1214
Loving the herd life
To add on we were able to warm compress and remove some milk, although very little she tolerated it very well did not seem painful. We then got the Lamb on her and she nursed well but Mom was giving a little bit of kick during it. She smelt baby a little bit when done.
Mini Horses
Herd Master
Sounds promising. She should start accepting lamb without you. If not....think this
IF the dog licked this lamb, there might be a hint of him still on it. I'd lightly wipe the lamb with wet cloth, immediately towel it .. maybe 2x .. destroy dog smell. Get some of ewe milk on your hand, very lightly brush that onto back hips of lamb. That will prob help with her identifying it. I'd suggest placental fluids but they're outside & maybe gone by now.
Bay & Ridge will help with more dog retraining once they get a chance.
IF the dog licked this lamb, there might be a hint of him still on it. I'd lightly wipe the lamb with wet cloth, immediately towel it .. maybe 2x .. destroy dog smell. Get some of ewe milk on your hand, very lightly brush that onto back hips of lamb. That will prob help with her identifying it. I'd suggest placental fluids but they're outside & maybe gone by now.
Bay & Ridge will help with more dog retraining once they get a chance.
Baymule
Herd Master
Pen dog up, let ewes out on pasture. Pen ewes up, let dog out.
Build a pen for dog in the barn, can use cow panels. Put a leash on the dog and walk her in with ewes and lambs. This is going to take some time. I don’t know that your dog will ever be trustworthy with lambing ewes. Maybe she thought the lambs were hurting the ewe? Or she wanted the lambs?
Build a pen for dog in the barn, can use cow panels. Put a leash on the dog and walk her in with ewes and lambs. This is going to take some time. I don’t know that your dog will ever be trustworthy with lambing ewes. Maybe she thought the lambs were hurting the ewe? Or she wanted the lambs?
Ridgetop
Herd Master
The smell of birthing, and the tiny cries of newborns, attracts predators. The same smells and cries puts the LGD into high protect mode. One reason why you will notice your LGD becoming much more aggressive and suspicious during lambing times.
Sounds like this dog may want the new lambs for herself. Some LGDs are possessive and will try to steal lambs. It will require training and of course, the ewe has been traumatized by this dog. There are other possibilities here but first remove the dog from access to the other lambing ewes. Bring the ewes due to lamb into the barn pen to lamb. That way you can keep them safe from the dog until you are sure of her behavior. Unless this dog has a very high prey drive and wants to kill small animals (newborn lambs) the lambs should be safe from the dog when they get bigger. Then the ewes and lambs can be turned back into the field, and they will be safe with the dog in with them.
Now, you said that the dog attached the ewe and lamb both. Did you witness the attack? Did the dog try to steal one of the lambs and the ewe try to defend the lambs? If so, the dog could have misinterpreted the ewe's aggression as dangerous for the lambs. That would make her attack the ewe to drive her away and protect the lambs. Since the ewe's injuries look to be only on her face (is that correct?) then the dog's attack was to drive her away not kil the ewe.
How was the lamb killed? Was it bitten severely? Were there tooth marks on the body? Did you see it get killed or just discover the dead body? If you did not witness the dog kill the lamb, was the lamb still covered in any placenta? What color was the placenta and slime? If the slime was orange, the lamb may have been still born. In that case the dog may have been trying to revive it and the ewe attacked the dog resulting in the dog trying to drive off the ewe.
To train the dog, put her on a choke chain and leash and bring her into the pen with the ewe and lamb. Hold her tightly and watch her behavior. if she lunges toward the ewe and lamb, yank her back and speak to her in a calming voice. She should not approach closer to the ewe than about 10' away. She should lay down or sit (laying down is preferable since it is less threatening) and wait until the ewe signals that she is calm about the dog. Only then can she get up and take one or two steps toward the lamb and ewe. If there is any opposition by the ewe, foot stamping, head shaking, nervousness, pull the dog back to the 10' distance. Gentle scolding is ok. DO NOT SHOUT "NO!" Shouting at the dog sounds to the dog like you are urging her on to attack the dangerous ewe.
You will have to continue this training for several days, weeks, months until the dog is trustworthy.
Erick Conard offers this as a training tool - If the dog wants to get at the lamb, when the next ewe lambs take the placenta and drape it over your hand. Offer it to the dog and encourage the dog to GENTLY smell it. If you are worried that the dog will lunge at it, wear a glove and drape the placenta over the glove to protect your hand. If the dog is rough (tries to bite or nip) at the placenta, cry and make a big deal about the dog having hurt you. It the dog seems calm in the presence of the ewe and lamb and does not seem to want to get to the lamb, then you can continue with enforcing the behavior and look for another reason for the attack.
Definitely clean the punctures and tears on the ewe and give antibiotics for the ewe. Milking out the ewe a bit and rubbing milk on lamb is good to bring ewe around to accepting her. Mini Horses is spot on there and probably the ewe was associating the lamb with the dog. Keep them confined in smaller pen together to allow lamb to nurse and ewe to bond. If ewe is focused on newborn, she will not care about rejoining flock for several days. It is perfectly ok to pick up the newborn lambs. We do it to move them to the jugs and to iodine the cords right after birth. The ewe will not reject lambs for that since the ewe knows you and your scent.
Let us know about how it goes with the dog. Some LGDs are perfect around lambing ewes from birth and need no training. Others can be trained in correct lambing behavior. Still others have such a strong newborn protection drive that they want to steal the lambs for themselves. These last dogs are much harder to train, but if they can be trained, make exceptional LGDs because of that high drive to protect. If your LGD is one of the last type, and cannot be trained to be completely trustworthy, you will have to lamb in the barn from now on to avoid problems. That last type of LGD is normally fine once lambing is over and does not try to steal older lambs or injure them.
Sounds like this dog may want the new lambs for herself. Some LGDs are possessive and will try to steal lambs. It will require training and of course, the ewe has been traumatized by this dog. There are other possibilities here but first remove the dog from access to the other lambing ewes. Bring the ewes due to lamb into the barn pen to lamb. That way you can keep them safe from the dog until you are sure of her behavior. Unless this dog has a very high prey drive and wants to kill small animals (newborn lambs) the lambs should be safe from the dog when they get bigger. Then the ewes and lambs can be turned back into the field, and they will be safe with the dog in with them.
Now, you said that the dog attached the ewe and lamb both. Did you witness the attack? Did the dog try to steal one of the lambs and the ewe try to defend the lambs? If so, the dog could have misinterpreted the ewe's aggression as dangerous for the lambs. That would make her attack the ewe to drive her away and protect the lambs. Since the ewe's injuries look to be only on her face (is that correct?) then the dog's attack was to drive her away not kil the ewe.
How was the lamb killed? Was it bitten severely? Were there tooth marks on the body? Did you see it get killed or just discover the dead body? If you did not witness the dog kill the lamb, was the lamb still covered in any placenta? What color was the placenta and slime? If the slime was orange, the lamb may have been still born. In that case the dog may have been trying to revive it and the ewe attacked the dog resulting in the dog trying to drive off the ewe.
To train the dog, put her on a choke chain and leash and bring her into the pen with the ewe and lamb. Hold her tightly and watch her behavior. if she lunges toward the ewe and lamb, yank her back and speak to her in a calming voice. She should not approach closer to the ewe than about 10' away. She should lay down or sit (laying down is preferable since it is less threatening) and wait until the ewe signals that she is calm about the dog. Only then can she get up and take one or two steps toward the lamb and ewe. If there is any opposition by the ewe, foot stamping, head shaking, nervousness, pull the dog back to the 10' distance. Gentle scolding is ok. DO NOT SHOUT "NO!" Shouting at the dog sounds to the dog like you are urging her on to attack the dangerous ewe.
You will have to continue this training for several days, weeks, months until the dog is trustworthy.
Erick Conard offers this as a training tool - If the dog wants to get at the lamb, when the next ewe lambs take the placenta and drape it over your hand. Offer it to the dog and encourage the dog to GENTLY smell it. If you are worried that the dog will lunge at it, wear a glove and drape the placenta over the glove to protect your hand. If the dog is rough (tries to bite or nip) at the placenta, cry and make a big deal about the dog having hurt you. It the dog seems calm in the presence of the ewe and lamb and does not seem to want to get to the lamb, then you can continue with enforcing the behavior and look for another reason for the attack.
Definitely clean the punctures and tears on the ewe and give antibiotics for the ewe. Milking out the ewe a bit and rubbing milk on lamb is good to bring ewe around to accepting her. Mini Horses is spot on there and probably the ewe was associating the lamb with the dog. Keep them confined in smaller pen together to allow lamb to nurse and ewe to bond. If ewe is focused on newborn, she will not care about rejoining flock for several days. It is perfectly ok to pick up the newborn lambs. We do it to move them to the jugs and to iodine the cords right after birth. The ewe will not reject lambs for that since the ewe knows you and your scent.
Let us know about how it goes with the dog. Some LGDs are perfect around lambing ewes from birth and need no training. Others can be trained in correct lambing behavior. Still others have such a strong newborn protection drive that they want to steal the lambs for themselves. These last dogs are much harder to train, but if they can be trained, make exceptional LGDs because of that high drive to protect. If your LGD is one of the last type, and cannot be trained to be completely trustworthy, you will have to lamb in the barn from now on to avoid problems. That last type of LGD is normally fine once lambing is over and does not try to steal older lambs or injure them.
Ridgetop
Herd Master
Remember this is your LGD's lambing season - she doesn't know what to expect of herself either.
Baymule
Herd Master
Erick Conard Lucky Hit Ranch - Main Home Page
Erick Conard home page listing farm animals on his ranch including Anatolian Shepherds horses llamas Boer and Nubian goats Tonkinese cats and Pilgrim geese
www.luckyhit.net
This is Eric Conard’s site and he has some good articles that he wrote on it.
I texted @Ridgetop for help, she is sick and in bed. But when an Anatolian owner needs emergency help, she is there. She texted me that she meant to give you Eric’s website.
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jambi1214
Loving the herd life
Warning graphic. This is absolutely wonderful information. I think I will do the placenta trick next lambs.
So she is always great with sheep. She will play and will chase them sometimes. I have seen her be food aggressive so I always feed her separate and am present when feeding sheep anything other than hay. But she is very protective of them. She does have a Hugh prey drive. She chasses the cats up trees and eats any small animal she can (rodents, rabbits, etc), chases off all large animals coyotes cows.... But again she lays with the heard and keeps an eye on them always. But correct she does not know what to do. I was worried she would maybe try to go for babies, placenta etc as she does eat all these things out in pasture. But I did see some placenta behind. So is not witness attack. Honestly I saw ewe and one lamb walking around dead baby. The deceased lamb was missing halfs it's hind body. I didnt examine further. I didn't lookfor other parts yet to be honest. Dog did have small amount of blood on her front leg. I do not think it's possible anything else got lamb either. Dog would have attacked it and we have electric fencing around entire pasture. What's weird is I don't think she got the whole half body just like that? Was the baby deformed? Idk. Top half didn't seem so. Also she didn't atackother lamb? Regardless I was not there but I do know she can be playful aggressive, just being a young dog. She isn't leash trained but will work on it. I did limited training with her to really get her to be more with sheep but she will heal and sit Everytime we stop, knows.come and wait. Enough for a working dog. I will slowing bring her back to around under surveillance. Not again around lambing. In meantime ewe and lamb are in smallest area I could get to work but will keep going in every 2-3 hours to assist in nursing. They will stay there for a few days. Giving ewe penicillin and Dex once a day cleaned wound with dilute chlorhexidine. I still need to do umbilical on lamb. Mom is otherwise eating a ton and active. Have not seen her lay down yet. Have them under baby camera surveillance. She doesn't go with lamb at all but lamb is staying warm in straw. Just look going to be 35 tonight some snow showers. But I'm sure I'll do a mid night check on them. Just check again on baby camera she keeps pushing the baby away
So she is always great with sheep. She will play and will chase them sometimes. I have seen her be food aggressive so I always feed her separate and am present when feeding sheep anything other than hay. But she is very protective of them. She does have a Hugh prey drive. She chasses the cats up trees and eats any small animal she can (rodents, rabbits, etc), chases off all large animals coyotes cows.... But again she lays with the heard and keeps an eye on them always. But correct she does not know what to do. I was worried she would maybe try to go for babies, placenta etc as she does eat all these things out in pasture. But I did see some placenta behind. So is not witness attack. Honestly I saw ewe and one lamb walking around dead baby. The deceased lamb was missing halfs it's hind body. I didnt examine further. I didn't lookfor other parts yet to be honest. Dog did have small amount of blood on her front leg. I do not think it's possible anything else got lamb either. Dog would have attacked it and we have electric fencing around entire pasture. What's weird is I don't think she got the whole half body just like that? Was the baby deformed? Idk. Top half didn't seem so. Also she didn't atackother lamb? Regardless I was not there but I do know she can be playful aggressive, just being a young dog. She isn't leash trained but will work on it. I did limited training with her to really get her to be more with sheep but she will heal and sit Everytime we stop, knows.come and wait. Enough for a working dog. I will slowing bring her back to around under surveillance. Not again around lambing. In meantime ewe and lamb are in smallest area I could get to work but will keep going in every 2-3 hours to assist in nursing. They will stay there for a few days. Giving ewe penicillin and Dex once a day cleaned wound with dilute chlorhexidine. I still need to do umbilical on lamb. Mom is otherwise eating a ton and active. Have not seen her lay down yet. Have them under baby camera surveillance. She doesn't go with lamb at all but lamb is staying warm in straw. Just look going to be 35 tonight some snow showers. But I'm sure I'll do a mid night check on them. Just check again on baby camera she keeps pushing the baby away
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