Fencing, high tensile or woven sheep/goat? Also best interior fencing? PermaNet??

[chanceosunshine]

It makes complete sense and I'm not at all opposed to dogs.

I assume it's easier to find a pup than trained adults. How do you go about training them? We plan to follow the sheep with chickens, so we need something that won't kill them either.

I also heard that donkeys are dangerous for lambs at lambing time because they view newborn lambs as intruders.

I have never had llamas. Many people use them with great success. Just bear in mind that llamas and donkeys are prey animals.

3 years ago there was a cougar in our area that killed a flock of goats. The owner used donkeys as guards. Against an apex predator, the donkeys only had to be faster than the goats.

The cougar was on property right next to ours one night, our dogs were going nuts. The cougar hung around 3 weeks, was heard screaming by people in our area. It was close to us several times, but did not come our property.

Predators want a meal they don't have to fight for. If my dogs get hurt, they go to the vet for care. If a predator gets hurt, they do not receive vet care. If a predator can't hunt, it goes hungry. So the cougar moved on, searching for easier prey.

My point is, I'll take my dogs over llamas or donkeys any day.

 

[Baymule]

Read the LGD forum. There is tons of information there. The old adage, Once a chicken killer, always a chicken killer. Just ain't true. LGDs can get carried away with playing with "squeaky toys" that flutter, squawk and make it fun. You have to stay on top of things. If you have a puppy (up to and over 2 years old) don't leave chickens out, dog out, all day while gone to work. It's not fair to the pup.

I have a female Anatolian, Sheba, that LOVES the lambs and wants to lick them all over when born. That would result in a newborn covered in dog slobber, utterly repulsive to the ewe and she would not recognize it as her own, and would reject it. She cannot be with the ewes when lambing. My male Anatolian, Sentry, will ask to be in the barn at night sometimes and is respectful of the ewes, gives them space and doesn't try to take over the babies. 1,000% trust worthy with the newborns. Dogs also want the placenta and will eat it.

My male Great Pyrenees, Trip decided ducks were on the menu and ate them. He snarled at me, lunged at me to protect his kill. Very important not to back down-you just lost your standing in the "pack". I picked up a tree branch off the ground and beat him with it. He stood his ground, I kept up the assault, screaming at him, he broke and ran and I chased him. Then I took his duck, LOL. This was repeated several times until I got it through my thick head that ducks weren't going to work for me. Trip is fine with chickens, but ducks are for him to eat. I got rid of the survivors.

Don't get 2 pups at once. Then you have 2 adolescents that just want to play with each other and not learn to work. Think human teenagers. Train one at a time, up to 2 years old, then get another one.

Read and study the LGD forum. Ask questions. You will get a variety of answers, pick what works for you and your dog. These dogs are highly intelligent, independent and will not respond like your typical dog. They are on a whole different level.

 

[chanceosunshine]

Thank you. I will read the forum.

From your experience, can older dogs, say Great Pyrenees, that have no guarding experience trainable to do so? I know we have a local rescue and I wouldn't mind giving one a chance at a farm life if that was a possibility, but I don't need to borrow trouble either.

I've seen many pups for sale that are already being brought up with sheep or goats. I'm assuming that would give us a better chance.

Let's say you have sheep in an electric net and you have an LGD in with them and they're being rotated every day. Following behind them, by about three days, so there is distance between them, are your flock of chickens cleaning up the pasture and also in electric netting. Is the presence of the LGD with the sheep enough to deter predators for the chickens as well and would the electric netting protect the chickens from the LGD?

I agree that 2 pups at a time isn't the best idea, even when you're just looking for pets.

And also, we have 6 grandsons under 4yo. Bringing the pups up with them should make for some child friendly dogs, right? Or is important to also consider one breed over another when it comes to kids?

Read the LGD forum. There is tons of information there. The old adage, Once a chicken killer, always a chicken killer. Just ain't true. LGDs can get carried away with playing with "squeaky toys" that flutter, squawk and make it fun. You have to stay on top of things. If you have a puppy (up to and over 2 years old) don't leave chickens out, dog out, all day while gone to work. It's not fair to the pup.

I have a female Anatolian, Sheba, that LOVES the lambs and wants to lick them all over when born. That would result in a newborn covered in dog slobber, utterly repulsive to the ewe and she would not recognize it as her own, and would reject it. She cannot be with the ewes when lambing. My male Anatolian, Sentry, will ask to be in the barn at night sometimes and is respectful of the ewes, gives them space and doesn't try to take over the babies. 1,000% trust worthy with the newborns. Dogs also want the placenta and will eat it.

My male Great Pyrenees, Trip decided ducks were on the menu and ate them. He snarled at me, lunged at me to protect his kill. Very important not to back down-you just lost your standing in the "pack". I picked up a tree branch off the ground and beat him with it. He stood his ground, I kept up the assault, screaming at him, he broke and ran and I chased him. Then I took his duck, LOL. This was repeated several times until I got it through my thick head that ducks weren't going to work for me. Trip is fine with chickens, but ducks are for him to eat. I got rid of the survivors.

Don't get 2 pups at once. Then you have 2 adolescents that just want to play with each other and not learn to work. Think human teenagers. Train one at a time, up to 2 years old, then get another one.

Read and study the LGD forum. Ask questions. You will get a variety of answers, pick what works for you and your dog. These dogs are highly intelligent, independent and will not respond like your typical dog. They are on a whole different level.

 

[Baymule]

A lot of rescues want you to keep their precious fur babies as house dogs, steer clear of any like that. A rescue is a shot in the dark, could be the best dog you ever had, the worst or somewhere in between. Watch Craigslist or local FB for someone getting rid of their goats/sheep and their dog. Sometimes you get lucky.

All my dogs would lay down their lives for children. They just know.

Make fencing the outer parameter a priority with hot wire top, middle and bottom before getting a LGD. The dog could always range a wire netting enclosure that took in the sheep and chicken pasture from outside the sheep/chicken wire net enclosure. Then they become “his” by way of being in his pasture. As a puppy, you would want to restrict that space to keep him closer to the sheep and chickens.

LGDs claim what’s under their feet. They claim what they see. Great Pyrenees tend to be roamers, but many LGDs will roam, given the chance. That’s why you need a good fence for them.

Take the puppy in with sheep and chickens under supervision, spend time with him. You don’t get an instant guard dog, it takes training and time.

 

[Alaskan]

When first married we had a Pyrenees and our first kid.

He was an excellent dog with the the baby.

 

[Bruce]

I've seen many pups for sale that are already being brought up with sheep or goats. I'm assuming that would give us a better chance.

If the dog is truly a trained adult LGD expect to pay a lot of money for it. If someone is selling it for a couple hundred there is a reason. The exception to that might be someone who is getting out of their farm life and wants to find a good working home for their working LGD.

 

[chanceosunshine]

Thank you all again.

Back to coyotes, would they be able to climb into a mobile pen made of livestock panels that's not quite five feet tall?

Sorry for being all over the place for the fencing post, just trying to choose wisely.

 

[Baymule]

Yes. Cow panels won’t keep coyotes out, or dogs either.

No need to apologize. If you don’t know, better to ask than have dead sheep.

 

[Blue Sky]

Avoid Boz Kangal breed. If you consider an Anatolian shepherd get it from a reputable breeder of LGDs.

 

[Alaskan]

Thank you all again.

Back to coyotes, would they be able to climb into a mobile pen made of livestock panels that's not quite five feet tall?

Sorry for being all over the place for the fencing post, just trying to choose wisely.

Think very agile, very smart dog.