FF Goat - Asking Questions

Wehner Homestead

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She could hold out or go any time. FFs are tricky.

Separate the bucks! The smells from delivery/fluids/etc will make the bucks bother her. Despite the aprons, she doesn’t need the added stress of being mounted. It’s also just good practice.
 

Wehner Homestead

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What kind of goat is Dotti? You mentioned she’s not seasonal and she’s got draped ears so I’m curious.

I belong to a Nigerian Dwarf Goat group on fb that has an awesome file for trouble shooting deliveries and what to expect and do for each malpresentation. If you have fb, I’ll make sure you have the group name so you can join and check it out.
 

Louannx

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The lady I got her from said she was a Boer. As some time went by and compared to my other goats, she just looked a little different in the head/face area. When I posted on FB, everyone came back and said she looked like a Boer with Nubian in her. Again, I’m just going off what everyone else has said.

I realize you cannot depend on some people’s word. Kinda like the guy that told me I needed two bucks. I was going to pick up a doe and he ended up selling me my other buck. I realize he saw someone new and sucker on their forehead and offloaded his buck because he knew I already had one. I had no idea what a wether was until recently and my second buck should of been wethered. I guess this is how you learn. That second buck is still young enough to be wethered but his dad was a dappled Boer, mom was reg Boer, so he carries 1/2 dappled genes. So DH does not want to.
 

MargaretClare

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For what it's worth, breeding aprons are not fail-proof. Especially on such a long bodied breed as a Boer. All it takes is one lucky mount on that 7 month doeling where the apron happens to flip up over her back and you've got an oops.
 

Ridgetop

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The udder can fill up anywhere from several weeks in advance to the night before giving birth. As the kids move into birthing position you might notice changes in Dotti's shape. She doesn't look huge to me for a Boer or Boer/Nubian cross at term but Boers are deep bodied and we once had a Nubian who looked like she would single give us triplets! Did the seller know when she was exposed to the buck or a breeding date? 5 months and 5 days is gestation period. Based on when she was in with the buck, at least June since you bought her in July and the seller said she was bred - and what breed the buck was - Boers will breed year round, while dairy breeds have definite rutting seasons, she is probably anywhere from 4 months to 5 months along. If she was bred in the early summer, she was probably bred to a Boer. Boer does will also breed year round, while dairy does are also seasonal breeders. It sounds like she is a Boer bred to a Boer buck since she was pregnant in July and is just approaching kidding in November.

Absolutely separate the doeling from the bucks now. Keep the doeling in with Dotti to keep them both happy and keep the bucks together. Accidents happen all the time. Goats have gotten bred through fences that you would not think they could even see the does through! Just read some of the sad stories about doelings bred too young on this site and you will see the wisdom in pulling her out immediately. Buck aprons may or may not work, I don't know since I would never trust anything except celibacy to keep a buck from impregnating a doe in heat. :gig

Like Wehner Homestead said, the smell from birthing will make the bucks try to breed Dotti. We had a male llama as a guardian once and as soon as the goats started kidding he was trying to breed them! We were lucky that he tried it as soon as I moved a doe back in the milker pen from the kidding pen and I was able to drive him off and rescue the doe! Instant trip to the vet for a little operation! I didn't realize that the kidding smell was so close to the smell of a doe in heat!

You don't really need 2 bucks. You will have to keep them separated from the does all the time or you won't know who the sire of your kids is. Also as the young one matures, the 2 bucks will fight over the does as they come into estrus. On the other hand, if your husband wants to keep both they will be company for each other in their own separate pen. They will be stinky in rut so I would recommend that you place their pen a little farther away. If Dotti's kids are does, you definitely don't want to keep a buck with her and the doelings. By keeping them separated you will have to bring the buck and doe together to breed them and you will know exactly when she is bred. This will help you determine future kidding dates. Hopefully 7 month old doeling Joli is not bred yet. What breed is Joli and the other bucks?

Keeping your bucks and does together may sound great and it may be done in other countries where people either don't have the option of separate pens or are in an open foraging situation. But in those situations, the goats are not pets, and the loss of some of their animals, while regrettable, is expected and accepted as part of the herd life.
 

Ron Bequeath

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Thank you, great advice. She comes in heat about every three weeks so she has not been bred. Read a lot of reviews about the buck aprons and they seem to work all these months. Do not really know why we have two bucks so that might be something the family needs to talk about. We’re not breeders just starting a farm and I realize there are a lot of things I need to learn. Just curious, you had four and now 18, was all that from breeding? That makes me nervous. Do you keep your buck separate? I read all the time that the buck broke the fence and bred the does. Just wanted to try and think of a different solution that other countries have been doing for hundreds of years. I could be wrong, you have made me rethink some things. :) congrats on your kids, they are adorable.
Dealing with bucks, i may sound inhuman but in my book a good buck is a chained buck, great brush trimmers, acrage clearer, but always on a chain, with a halter, and a collar but the halter on a buck demands obedience. Although i only have 2 doe at the present i plan on trading a jersey cow for some alpine does. So will keep him busy soon. I hope. Another method I was going to try is cattle panels. You need 10 panels and set them up like two 16 x 32 foot rectangles side by side as the buck cleans one side he's move to the other and if you study it enough you can rotate every 4 to 5 weeks and always have the buck on fresh pasture. Near woods and being in the tick season thought I'd just point out a few things, every farm where deer or woods are present needs a small band of quinae fowl to clear the population, control it, or wiped it out, also walmart and pet stores sell a small hook that twists the tick off and holds it til you can kill it. Small change of subject, bot flies/warble grubs, for some funny reason since our summer was wet, very wet didn't seem to see any but warmer summers seem to have them. What I do since I'm diabetic and always have a supply if syringes if I see a warble grub near the surface on a goat or cow, I put about 10 units of alcohol in the syringe and inject it right up the bxtt of that grub, wait 3 min and with a tweezers just pull that gross bad boy out. The alcohol seems to stun him dead, and he then releases. If smashed in the host can cause poisoning, and infection, and if caught early won't travel to the innards of the host. You can use the same syringe all summer just clean with alcohol and store in clean container
 
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Louannx

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Thank you everyone! This is all great information and a lot of information taken in. I would like to say that there is a difference between not being knowledgeable and being irresponsible. I want to be a good goat mama, so that is why I had the Buck Aprons made. Googling, you will find it seems like half the people that separate and half the people that don’t. I will be separating the Bucks! ;)

So ok, I got around 80x50ish big goat pen. I made three pens within it. Dotti and Joli will have 30x50 pen including the big goat house (inside goat house is a 10x5 birthing pen) that is where Dotti has been sleeping for weeks. Then beside them is a 30x50 pen (common pen?) then on the other side of that a 20x50 pen will be for Jeb and Obi. I got one large Igloo dog house but I need to build them a shelter this weekend and I will move them in. The back of the common pen will open to 7 wooded acres, but need to finish fencing it by next spring. If nothing else will have at least 1-2 acres fenced by then.

All the goats are Boer goats with the exception that Dotti may have a little Nubian in her (facewise) but she has the Boer legs and body.

When I got her, the lady just looked at her and said she thought she was pregnant. The lady had 10 fenced acres (that was originally setup for horses before the goats) and about 15 does and 1 solid black Boer buck. He was beautiful. She let her goats run together year round.

I got Dotti July 6th so in a couple days I will be a 4 month goat owner. I got all the goats within that week. Her ligs come and go the last two weeks. In the morning times they are gone but by evening one is back and mushy. It takes me a minute or two to find it. Her pin bone area is all sunken in and I can feel her spine at the base of her tail. Her udder bag has gotten more milk but is not tight at all.

She started losing whitish thick discharge plug the last week of sept and then here and there around same time I felt her milk bag developing (about size of lemon then) but last three days she has yellowish thick discharge.

I feel baby or babies on both side of belly. On the right, the kicks are low. On the left, the kicks are high, like above the rumen. Either she has two or this is one big baby laying sideways and either way, I’m pretty nervous. I really hope she knows what to do. I think she cannot go too much longer so I’m really watching and paying attention to that udder. So that is where we are and I just want to say again that the bucks will be separated. :)
 

MargaretClare

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Thank you everyone! This is all great information and a lot of information taken in. I would like to say that there is a difference between not being knowledgeable and being irresponsible. I want to be a good goat mama, so that is why I had the Buck Aprons made. Googling, you will find it seems like half the people that separate and half the people that don’t. I will be separating the Bucks! ;)

So ok, I got around 80x50ish big goat pen. I made three pens within it. Dotti and Joli will have 30x50 pen including the big goat house (inside goat house is a 10x5 birthing pen) that is where Dotti has been sleeping for weeks. Then beside them is a 30x50 pen (common pen?) then on the other side of that a 20x50 pen will be for Jeb and Obi. I got one large Igloo dog house but I need to build them a shelter this weekend and I will move them in. The back of the common pen will open to 7 wooded acres, but need to finish fencing it by next spring. If nothing else will have at least 1-2 acres fenced by then.

All the goats are Boer goats with the exception that Dotti may have a little Nubian in her (facewise) but she has the Boer legs and body.

When I got her, the lady just looked at her and said she thought she was pregnant. The lady had 10 fenced acres (that was originally setup for horses before the goats) and about 15 does and 1 solid black Boer buck. He was beautiful. She let her goats run together year round.

I got Dotti July 6th so in a couple days I will be a 4 month goat owner. I got all the goats within that week. Her ligs come and go the last two weeks. In the morning times they are gone but by evening one is back and mushy. It takes me a minute or two to find it. Her pin bone area is all sunken in and I can feel her spine at the base of her tail. Her udder bag has gotten more milk but is not tight at all.

She started losing whitish thick discharge plug the last week of sept and then here and there around same time I felt her milk bag developing (about size of lemon then) but last three days she has yellowish thick discharge.

I feel baby or babies on both side of belly. On the right, the kicks are low. On the left, the kicks are high, like above the rumen. Either she has two or this is one big baby laying sideways and either way, I’m pretty nervous. I really hope she knows what to do. I think she cannot go too much longer so I’m really watching and paying attention to that udder. So that is where we are and I just want to say again that the bucks will be separated. :)

I don't think anybody here meant to imply that you were irresponsible. I certainly never did. If anyone is irresponsible it's whoever told you you needed two bucks. Unfortunately there are way too many of those types.

I personally believe that running bucks together with does year round depends on an individual's situation and goals. On an established farm with a large number of does to be bred and kid with minimal input, for example, it would be normal to run the buck. But on a start out farm with only a few does to breed and kid, running a buck could complicate things. Especially for a new goat keeper, it would be beneficial to know breeding dates and not worry about breeding accidents and such.
 
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