Free choice minerals.

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day ,just out of interest what mineral deficiency's are you trying to correct with your mixes?Your soils can sometimes be the problem .ie: to acid or to alkaline.Different soils "tie up"certain minerals......To give you an example our acid soils mean that we have calcium magnesium problems,plus copper and trace elements......In cases where the stock are consuming large amounts it could be that the mix only contains a very small amount of the one they require.We find that periods of low feed quality and the losses that occur during lambing result in a higher than normal take-up. ...just a few thoughts on the subject...T.O.R..................

 

[Livinwright Farm]

G'day ,just out of interest what mineral deficiency's are you trying to correct with your mixes?Your soils can sometimes be the problem .ie: to acid or to alkaline.Different soils "tie up"certain minerals......To give you an example our acid soils mean that we have calcium magnesium problems,plus copper and trace elements......In cases where the stock are consuming large amounts it could be that the mix only contains a very small amount of the one they require.We find that periods of low feed quality and the losses that occur during lambing result in a higher than normal take-up. ...just a few thoughts on the subject...T.O.R..................

Nice to see you posting again T.O.R.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

We've had the same experience in the past. When we upgraded to a better quality mineral the goats went crazy. As far as I'm concerned the cheap all-stock type minerals are totally worthless for our herd.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

We've had the same experience in the past. When we upgraded to a better quality mineral the goats went crazy. As far as I'm concerned the cheap all-stock type minerals are totally worthless for our herd.

All stock minerals are typically low in copper too... which means having to give copper boluses more often. One of the reasons why we make sure that what we give our goats says Goat, instead of multi species or sheep & goat or all stock.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day,thank you Livinwright farm,I must say that it never ceases to amaze me that so many of the people on the forum "do not" mix there own minerals for their stock...Most of you with more than a "backyard" would have done a soil test,if you exclude P & N it will tell you what you are short of and you can then supplement only whats required,its the same with your "feeds"there is info out there which tells you what ratios of minerals occur in specific feeds and then you can "balance " your feed mix to compensate for short comings in one or other of the ingredients..............If you are feeding high ratios of Alfalfa you will certainly have Iodine issues........On the subject of Copper we pay $18 a kg,but as it is only a small % of the total it works out OK(EG. 3kg of copper lasted about 6 weeks in the mix for nearly 400 sheep ,200 of which were pregnant ewe's).....I do recall looking at the chemical analysis of one of your commercial pre-mixes and almost every ingredient was synthetic ..............This is a very interesting thread on the subject...................T.O.R......................

 

[Ms. Research]

G'day,thank you Livinwright farm,I must say that it never ceases to amaze me that so many of the people on the forum "do not" mix there own minerals for their stock...Most of you with more than a "backyard" would have done a soil test,if you exclude P & N it will tell you what you are short of and you can then supplement only whats required,its the same with your "feeds"there is info out there which tells you what ratios of minerals occur in specific feeds and then you can "balance " your feed mix to compensate for short comings in one or other of the ingredients..............If you are feeding high ratios of Alfalfa you will certainly have Iodine issues........On the subject of Copper we pay $18 a kg,but as it is only a small % of the total it works out OK(EG. 3kg of copper lasted about 6 weeks in the mix for nearly 400 sheep ,200 of which were pregnant ewe's).....I do recall looking at the chemical analysis of one of your commercial pre-mixes and almost every ingredient was synthetic ..............This is a very interesting thread on the subject...................T.O.R......................

Welcome back I see. I popped up here while you were gone. As someone who will be getting involved with livestock, I am very curious about how to maintain these animals. Our plan for our future farm is to have a few goats and sheep, along with other animals. It's only my DH and myself, so there won't be a huge amount of animals. I've been reading Livingwright's threads since she came back, and my view of these postings are that goats and sheep need different minerals which could undermine each other fed together. If mixing my own, which BTW I feel I should learn, would it than be a better feeding situation for both? I know how to read soil samples along with water samples. I'm well aware of the deficiencies., natural and man-made that could affect livestock that graze.

I too think this is an interesting thread on the subject and will be interested in learning more.

Thank you Livinwright for this thread. To Old Ram-Australia, Welcome from New Jersey.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Thank you Livinwright for this thread. To Old Ram-Australia, Welcome from New Jersey.

Thank kstaven they're the one who started it

that goats and sheep need different minerals which could undermine each other fed together

The main issue if feeding goats & sheep communally is: Copper. Enough copper for a goat, will kill a sheep. Little enough to zero copper for the sheep will lead to grave deficiency in the goat. On top of this, is the fact that many of the plants that are safe and beneficial for goats are deadly for sheep. If space allows, it is best to have them in seperate pens/paddocks.

 

[ksalvagno]

G'day,thank you Livinwright farm,I must say that it never ceases to amaze me that so many of the people on the forum "do not" mix there own minerals for their stock...Most of you with more than a "backyard" would have done a soil test,if you exclude P & N it will tell you what you are short of and you can then supplement only whats required,its the same with your "feeds"there is info out there which tells you what ratios of minerals occur in specific feeds and then you can "balance " your feed mix to compensate for short comings in one or other of the ingredients..............If you are feeding high ratios of Alfalfa you will certainly have Iodine issues........On the subject of Copper we pay $18 a kg,but as it is only a small % of the total it works out OK(EG. 3kg of copper lasted about 6 weeks in the mix for nearly 400 sheep ,200 of which were pregnant ewe's).....I do recall looking at the chemical analysis of one of your commercial pre-mixes and almost every ingredient was synthetic ..............This is a very interesting thread on the subject...................T.O.R......................

The biggest problem is cost. The tests aren't too bad but finding someone to make a mineral mix for you that would be less than a ton would be next to impossible. Most mills will only mix large batches. This also includes feeds. Most mills will only make up large batches.

 

[kstaven]

G'day ,just out of interest what mineral deficiency's are you trying to correct with your mixes?Your soils can sometimes be the problem .ie: to acid or to alkaline.Different soils "tie up"certain minerals......To give you an example our acid soils mean that we have calcium magnesium problems,plus copper and trace elements......In cases where the stock are consuming large amounts it could be that the mix only contains a very small amount of the one they require.We find that periods of low feed quality and the losses that occur during lambing result in a higher than normal take-up. ...just a few thoughts on the subject...T.O.R..................

We are 7 years into reworking the soil here. Copper and selenium are still to the low side. Aluminum is running high through the entire region. Soil PH is very good as is the fibrous matter now. Nice to see some one else posting on soil condition. I always request a copy of soil tests from our hay suppliers.

Any suggestions on binding aluminum?

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G,day, My interest in this thread "grows" by the minute.....Kstaven:.My understanding of high soluble Al is associated with low PH levels,if your low PH is confined to the top 6ins of your soil profile you may be able to correct it with the application of lime.(our Granite based soils run from 4.5/5.5 and the acidity runs down to bedrock,we could apply lime for 100 yrs and still not have any impact).......We actually feed Ca in our mineral mix in the form of CaMg(C03)2,the other thing we do is to "not" fight our acid soil(our sheep operation is "grass based",we feed "no anything",no N or P is spread ,no mech soil disturbance and all weed control is herb-aside based using a backpack(no blanket spraying and only narrow spectrum chemicals are used).....Our whole pasture operation is based on native grasses and "naturalized exotics"(as a result of the drought anything that survived is acceptable)...... .We use only "natural occurring minerals" delivered down the throat and it leaves the other end in a state that plants can absorb and utilize immediately..This method of delivery means that the animals system is balanced by supplying shortfalls in the acid soils and therefor the grasses are also defecient.....The decision to take the mix is entirely up to the sheep,we have used the same thing on cattle ,goats as well as the sheep over many years...........We have been on this current property for over 12 years now,have survived the biggest drought in 100 yrs and the land is still in better shape than when we purchased it....I have just started to make our own compost for a paddock trial , but it the same as we have used in our vege gardens for "years".We are aiming for the max number of perennial species,along with any clovers we can encourage.(to protect the "crowns" we "do not" slash any dry matter).

The 1st pic is taken up the slope and the 2nd is down the slope,the key is the small tree with the "black trunk".

I must confess that I am a little confused by your commercial "mineral mixes",are they pre-mixes or protein supplements with minerals added?..Perhaps some of you could "scan" in the typical analysis and /or the ingredients in % breakdown of your current mix (or you can PM the details if you prefer and I will comment further later).

IMO the salt /mineral blocks sold commercially are just salt and the ingredient that the stock needs is in such small quantity's,that the stock have to consume a vast amount to try and satisfy the mineral need...We use salt in our mix ,but by volume it only represents 3 parts in a 13 & 1/2 part mix.. We purchase the ingredients separably and measure with a coffee cup and mix it in a bucket,it is placed in old "drench drums"(20 lt) with a face "cut out" and hung on the fence near a water point. I have observed that lambs will take the mix after about 4 weeks of age(when they start grazing the pasture).

I understand that many of you live in "harsh" winter climates and have to hand feed ,due to the lack of available pasture,anyway I look forward to your reactions to this post..............................T.O.R.......................................