Free choice minerals.

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day kastaven,does your forest areas provide "woodland grazing"?Can you indicate the purpose of your Lime trial?If your pine forest has a degree of age the "needle drop" will be contributing to your acid soil problems,are you aware of any grass species that can "flourish"under the heavy shade produced by the pines?................We learned during the drought that if we were to continue "sheep farming" and make a" profit" we had to address the long term viability of our pastures.There is a saying I once heard and it was ,"Before you can farm livestock,you must first be a successful Grass Farmer",so soil health , biodiversity and overall stock health were made priority's...
In an earlier post I mentioned that we use "narrow spectrum herb aside's",at first glance that may seem at "odd's"with a more natural approach to livestock production.We found through trial and error that the weed we were trying to "outwit"was a difficult one indeed(Serrated Tussock),its "highly invasive",has no value as stock feed (in fact stock will "starve" to death because of it's almost no level of nutrition).The seed is carried on the wind and seems capable of "germinating" on a "good dew",and if control is attempted by "chipping" the only result is the creation of a "perfect seed bed",it will germinate in the thickest pasture and "outperforms " any grass we have on our place.The seed lying on the ground is viable for 25 yrs.

If you look up the typical analysis of Seaweed Meal try Vitagran
www.multicrop.com.au/HAvitagran.htm - Cached.I don't imagine they export to the US,but you should be able to get something comparable,this stuff cost us $130.00 per 20kg and we use 40kg per year,but it is "so" worth it,Its totally natural and the minerals,work naturally to balance the livestock's systems(it's no silver bullet )over time,add to this dolomite,a course salt in granular form(we use common pool salt)and some yellow Sulphur,plus a small amount of Copper Sulphate(Bluestone)...I can post the ratio's if the forum is interested and there you have it.

At that this time I would like to "commend" kstaven for starting this thread,regards .T.O.R......................

 

[kstaven]

We have very good diverse woodland grazing here. Once the goats thinned the oregon grape and hazel, native grasses take over so the need to reseed heavily is really not necessary. I also had the opportunity to cut a section of native grasslands at a time when seeds where plentiful. So I tend to use this to back up any thin spots.

The lime came into play because of a suggestion concerning dealing with aluminum. It was a real step backwards for us. Contrary to popular schools of thought, our fall soil tests had higher acid levels not lower. The aluminum is in the surface layers and not deep here.


Seaweed meal is available here.

I have copper sulfate here and use it. For some strange reason people around here have the impression that copper sulfate, or blue stone as you refer to it, is toxic to goats.

I had to laugh when you mentioned granite. Dig down 5 meters (15.5 feet) here and you hit solid granite.

Besides soil quality I am surprised you didn't mention well water testing to see what is there: What you may be depositing on the surface and what your plants are taking up.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day kstaven,Those native grasses are a "god send" aren't they,are your pines a result of a plantation planting?That result of the lime trial is a real puzzle.Was the trial in a treed area?What was the PH at the beginning and what rate did you apply the Lime?It could be that it leached out or the plants just took it up.Did you just do 1 strip or did you do several at varying rates?

The copper is quite poisonous and should only be a small% in a complete mix IMO.The Seaweed Meal contains Copper in a safe state and over time will correct a minor imbalance,it depends how deficient the soils and feeds are.Its the same with Iodine and Selenium.We don't have water wells ,all our water storage is in what you call "ponds" and is a result of surface runoff.We are lucky in that all our rain falls through "clean air" as we do not have any "heavy industry" nearby to create "acid rain".All of our "house water "is run-off from the house roof and stored in tanks next to the house.We also use no irrigation on our pastures.

2X7000 gals

Thanks for the OK to address the other questions raised earlier.

Q & A:Hickoryneck.I would caution you about not mixing the Copper in with other stuff at very low ratio's,should you get "new" stock severely deficient they could take on an excessive amount and die as a result.If you can get the Seaweed Meal you will find the results are really good,the Trace Elements on there own in a natural state are worth the expense.(ask kstaven where he gets his?).The other thing you could add is some Sulfur (the yellow one they use in gardens).You can add this to the mix or if you have "body lice issues"rub some into their coats along the "top-line".

20 Kidsonahill:In both the min mixes you posted they had sugars and grain or grain by-products,when you asked if ours "went off" i thought it was a problem with what you were using.......Chaff,I'm sure they would use it over there ,but may call it something else.Its Hay which is put through a "shredder" and chopped into lengths of about 1/4 inch sections ,horse people use heaps of Alfalfa in this form....Its not difficult to make up your own grain ration from individual ingredients.You just have to consider what you need to address,if you need to lift the protein of the mix I would include Lupins(cracked),if you need to lift energy (say in winter dried Molasses in much easier to handle that the wet type),rolled Barley and a small amount of Maize is good (but not to excess ,because it can turn the internal body fat quite "yellow",a big turnoff with many "ethnic buyers")rolled Oats can also be included as they are quite "fatty".Try to get your local AG Dept guy to get you some info on grain feeding.If you can get Chaff,try it 50/50 Alfalfa/Oaten or Wheaten.It is advisable to use by volume 4parts the chaff to 1part grain mix.......I assume you feed hay,Goats are notorious "wasters" of expensive hay.........Feed merchants tend to Chaff lower grade Hay,when we were milking our Dairy herd we brought a "garden shredder"and used to buy the "best " quality Alfalfa hay(horse grade) and Chaff it ourselves.The shredder soon paid for itself with the reduced amount of wastage.(there is nothing wrong with your brain ,its just that our 2 country's use different terms to describe the same thing)..The nature of your soil has a large bearing on what grasses you can grow,its worthwhile learning as much as you can about your biggest asset.Good quality grass is the "cheapest and healthiest "feed you can give to your stock.

Goatherd:The rate of consumption is a good indication of the level of need ,our sheep have been getting it for over 20yrs and we still have periods of "higher" than average take-up,due to the feed conditions at any given time.

Well I think that may have answered all the questions so far ,but if you need additional info or further explanation on any point ,please post and ask,regards T.O.R...................................

Knowledge only increases in "value" ,when it is shared.........T.O.R.

 

[20kidsonhill]

We have talked about a hay shredder, because small square bales are pricey and being able to buy large round bales and feed it into a shredder would help us beable to feed it. OUr hay feeders are very efficient and are prettty good about not wasting hay. We only can handle the 45-55lb bales of hay with our set-up and equipment that we own. Being able to shred a big round bale in one location and bucket it to the different feeders and pens would be helpful.

We are looking into having the feed mill make us a ration this year for our nursing does, since most the premixed feeds in our area are only a 2.5% fat content, and we would like to get closer to a 4.5% fat, with around 15% protein. But as far as purchasing all the ingredience seperate and having to store it and mix it. I just don't feel we are a big enough operation to deal with all of that. Plus we are a little on the lazy side.

As far as the discussion of the Feed" going off" or going bad. I beleive we were discussing two different types of feed. In one post(discussion we were talking about loose salts(minerals). Those don't go bad very easily. In another discussion I was discussing pelleted feed(grains). Those do go "off" or bad in warm weather(alot of grain in those). We only buy 2 weeks of pelleted feed at a time. It would be a 16% protein with 2.5% fat and near 16% fiber.

OH, and yes, that is what we also refer to as Chaff hay. Just was wanting to make sure we were talking about the same thing. I have read and heard of some farms feeding in the manner that you are reffering to using chaff hay and grains. I have always thought that it sounds like a good way to use the feed efficiently, especially the hay.

 

[ragdollcatlady]

Hi,
Just wanted to chime in about minerals.....I read about several brands and wanted to try Sweetlix Caprine Magnum Milk but the feed stores around here all groan when they see me coming....I always ask for products they don't carry and I don't want the stuff they say is what every one else is using. Everyone else wants the cheapest stuff and apparently everyone in our area has meat goats. We do live in a poor area and there are a lot of milk cows but I guess not too many milk goats. I try to explain that I want dairy products for my dairy goats and they still try to sell me the protein blocks instead of the loose minerals I ask for. When I contacted sweetlix by email they just told me that to buy from them I would need to buy it by the ton. Not so helpful for just a few goats...When I went to pick up my new nigerian doeling many hours north of us, her owner had the minerals I wanted so I ran to the local feed store and bought 2 bags. We are almost halfway through one bag already and we've only had it about 2 1/2 weeks! I have one Nubian and 5 Nigerians and that seems like alot to me. But I'm glad they like it so much.
P.S. it has 7.50-9.00 calcium, less than the other post with a sweetlix mineral. this says that it is a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus mineral designed to be fed to dairy goats on a legume diet. Any thoughts?
Kat

 

[20kidsonhill]

Hi,
Just wanted to chime in about minerals.....I read about several brands and wanted to try Sweetlix Caprine Magnum Milk but the feed stores around here all groan when they see me coming....I always ask for products they don't carry and I don't want the stuff they say is what every one else is using. Everyone else wants the cheapest stuff and apparently everyone in our area has meat goats. We do live in a poor area and there are a lot of milk cows but I guess not too many milk goats. I try to explain that I want dairy products for my dairy goats and they still try to sell me the protein blocks instead of the loose minerals I ask for. When I contacted sweetlix by email they just told me that to buy from them I would need to buy it by the ton. Not so helpful for just a few goats...When I went to pick up my new nigerian doeling many hours north of us, her owner had the minerals I wanted so I ran to the local feed store and bought 2 bags. We are almost halfway through one bag already and we've only had it about 2 1/2 weeks! I have one Nubian and 5 Nigerians and that seems like alot to me. But I'm glad they like it so much.
P.S. it has 7.50-9.00 calcium, less than the other post with a sweetlix mineral. this says that it is a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus mineral designed to be fed to dairy goats on a legume diet. Any thoughts?
Kat

When you buy the minerals, they should have a 2:1 for any of your bucks or whethers. Sweetlix Meatmaker 16:8 is the one that has the 2 to 1 ratio. You will be okay feeding it to does, especially if they are getting any kind of alfalfa.

They can eat way more than you would ever imagine. I am feeding up to 20 in a field and if I leave it run out, or depending on the time of year, they will go through a 25lb bag in a couple of weeks easilyl. Doesn't surprise me at all that yours ate that much. They will probably slow down on consumption at some point.

There are some other pretty good brands out there:

Cargill right now Onyx for cattle
ultralyx for goats
TSC sells a brand of loose minerals


Did you ask the sweetlix company where the closest dealer is to you? Another words what is the closest feed store to you that is contracted to sell their brand.

 

[DonnaBelle]

I too have been in contact with Sweetlix. I sent them an email and they answered me very quickly with the name of the feed store in my area that has contacts with distributors for Sweetlix. My feed store ordered it for me yesterday which means I'll have it next week sometime.

DonnaBelle

 

[ragdollcatlady]

Thanks for the response, I'll be separating the boys in a few days so I'll see about getting them the 2:1 instead. I did ask for the nearest retailer, but there weren't any in the towns or cities near me.
Kat

 

[ragdollcatlady]

I just thought of another question....I believe the boys shouldn't be on alfalfa right? I have one buckling and 2 wethers. What would be the best hay for them? Orchard mix, Barley, and Burmuda are the kinds that my main feed store sells on a regular basis.

 

[kstaven]

G'day kstaven,Those native grasses are a "god send" aren't they,are your pines a result of a plantation planting?That result of the lime trial is a real puzzle.Was the trial in a treed area?What was the PH at the beginning and what rate did you apply the Lime?It could be that it leached out or the plants just took it up.Did you just do 1 strip or did you do several at varying rates?

The copper is quite poisonous and should only be a small% in a complete mix IMO.The Seaweed Meal contains Copper in a safe state and over time will correct a minor imbalance,it depends how deficient the soils and feeds are.Its the same with Iodine and Selenium.We don't have water wells ,all our water storage is in what you call "ponds" and is a result of surface runoff.We are lucky in that all our rain falls through "clean air" as we do not have any "heavy industry" nearby to create "acid rain".All of our "house water "is run-off from the house roof and stored in tanks next to the house.We also use no irrigation on our pastures.

The pines are not plantation planting, but a native species that occurs naturally in this region. The lime issue threw us for a loop also and the university lab is still scratching their head. I wonder if the native berry bushes didn't take part of it up?

The area tested had been heavily treed with a good degree of standing dead wood. It was dieing off and thus thinned to allow for new younger growth to have a fighting chance.

Copper, selenium and iodine are all moderately low here. But my understanding has been that without realizing a rise in PH #'s the augmentation of what we are low on is highly ineffective. I will dig up our last test results and post them so you see what we are dealing with.

As to hay used, our suppliers provide full copies of their soil testing results and that of the hay. So on both sides of the equation we know what we are dealing with. Personally I will not deal with a supplier that will not provide this. I may end up paying a little more for this but in the long run it is far cheaper than dealing with the consequences of cheap feeds.