Grey Wolves back in the news.

[Roll farms]

It's proven that wolves go for easy meals...so yes, I do believe the dogs will keep them at bay, unless there is simply nothing else to eat.
There are tons of farms around here w/ much easier pickings, free ranging birds, sheep w/ no guardians, not to mention the fact that
Indiana is grossly overpopulated w/ deer, Canadian geese, and many other types of food sources for wolves...why? Because we have none.

My female pyr gathers and chases the goats into the barn while the male dogs run at whatever they see as a perceived threat. Then all three present a 375 pound united front of teeth.

Anatolians and Pyrenees have been used effectively for centuries to guard against wolves, so yes, I'm fairly certain they'll be effective.
These aren't pets, they're like hired hands w/ sharp teeth, keen intelligence, and no use for strangers of any species.

Personally, I'm more against free ranging dogs who DO kill for sport then run home to their 'masters' for a bowl of kibble, than I am a NATURAL predator.
Idiot townies move out here and let their dogs roam, and my guardians have dispatched a few of them. I don't blame the dogs, once again, I blame the owners.
As usual, the animals suffer for human ignorance.

This is one of those things that we'll have to agree to disagree on, I think.
I don't begrudge you your opinion, I just don't have the same one is all.

 

[Farmer Kitty]

Wolves are beautiful animals. But, also destructive and deadly.

I understand your view. It's the rose colored glasses one of someone who has never actually dealt with wolves. I used to have it.

Here are a few more used tos for you.
We used to have to many deer.
We used to see fawns past the end of June.
We used to see one maybe two at a time.
We used to be able to say we had never lost an animal due to wolves. 2 calves born out on pasture.
We used to be able to say we had never treated an animal due to a wolf attack. She was a big, 7 1/2 month pregnant heifer with no health issues-note said was.
We used to be able to say we had never had a wolf within .22 pistol shooting range of the house.
We used to be able to say we didn't know of anyone who had had a wolf in their barn when they went out to do chores.
We used to be able to say that if you saw a wolf it would turn and go the other way.
We used to be able to say we didn't know anyone who a wolf had turn and started walking toward them.
We used to be able to say it was safe to walk in the woods unarmed.
We used to be able to say there weren't any stories of someone walking the road and disappearing with the indications being it was a wolf. He was armed too.

When you get to the point of all these used tos then report back your view. I'll be interested in hearing if it has changed.

 

[Roll farms]

You say it's rose-colored glasses, I say it's respect and acceptance of another living creature who's only doing what it's designed to do, and that *I* do not feel I have the superior right to kill it just b/c it might come after me or mine.

Believe me, I'm not a naive tree hugger. I just don't think I'm any better than they are or deserve to be here more than they do.

And once we kill off everything that we don't like....what do we have left?

I'd just as soon not argue w/ you about it.
I thought I could offer an opinion since others had...
You've made up your mind and while you're right that I don't have to deal w/ wolves, you'll never understand that I'd like to be able to.

 

[Farmer Kitty]

It's not the wolf so much as the over population. And I do understand your side, I've been there. But, what natural predator is there to the wolves here? Just disease (& man). Believe me, when the population was down where the wildlife could support it there wasn't much of an issue. It's now that the wolf populations have way exceeded what the wildlife population can support that issues arise.

Read my used tos through. It's not just livestock deprivation, which shouldn't be happening if levels were in balance, but, they have come at people. And please don't tell me that they don't. Not when it's my own family they have come after. You say that you don't feel the right to take a life just because they have come after you or yours. Had that wolf been a person, would you say the same? If it was a person hunting your family and you, would you protect the person and let them kill your family or would you kill the the person? I'm not saying they all need killed off. Just brought back into the populations that the wildlife population can reasonably sustain, which IMO, is responsible wildlife management. It's not good for the wolves to be at such high levels either.

Just food for thought and I don't consider this an argument but, a discussion. Just because we have two different views to put out there doesn't mean it has to be an argument. Why is it that people automatically assume that differing opinions equals an argument? Why can't we discuss anything anymore in today's society?

 

[Roll farms]

*sigh*
I just can't see how "discussing" this is beneficial.

Now we're just beating dead horses.

I did read your used-tos.

And, because you asked, I'll answer...Heck, yes, if a human came after me or mine, I'd probably stop them by whatever means necessary...why?
I like wolves better than most humans.
Seriously, if a human came after us, it'd probably be because they're nutters. So they'd NEED removed, by some means.
It's (supposedly) NOT human nature to come after other humans.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

I can agree that an overpopulation would be a problem, but again...
humans are to blame. Wolves USUALLY, historically, didn't do a lot of the things they do now....such as go after people or overpopulate an area. Because so many new packs are establishing and splintering, you have more cubs being born to single pairs, where typically one big pack would only produce one litter.
Like coyotes, familiarity w/ humans is making them bolder.

Bringing wolves back to help combat the deer overpopulation, and give the coyotes some competition....worked real well, didn't it?

I just dislike the situation in general.
I dislike that it's happening to a lot of species, not just wolves.

I just think it's unfair to blame a species and brand them evil for doing what Nature created them for. Blame the idiots who took them, and their competition, out to begin with, and then tried to reintroduce them w/ no means of controlling their spread.

 

[Farmer Kitty]

I just think it's unfair to blame a species and brand them evil for doing what Nature created them for. Blame the idiots who took them, and their competition, out to begin with, and then tried to reintroduce them w/ no means of controlling their spread.

But, man has created the issue so as we have caused the unbalance, isn't it our responsibility to make sure things are kept in line? Not only for our benefit but the wolves or any other species? To many will bring disease to them and if there isn't enough food, starvation. Not a pleasant thought.

You know, when they were in the small groups of one or two there weren't the issues that there are now. Two years ago there was a pack sighted here that was 11 at that time. Assuming they have all survived and they have just 2 pups a year survive, that pack is up to 15. Of course they may not have all survived or they could have had more/less pups. That's not the only pack in this area and therein lies the problem--to many for the wildlife to support.

Seriously, if a human came after us, it'd probably be because they're nutters. So they'd NEED removed, by some means.
It's (supposedly) NOT human nature to come after other humans.

When it comes down to it we are animals as well. Supposedly we are smarter. Who works their butts off all their life for material things? Who is the one that lives life as nature intended? Now whose smarter? I'm not so sure it humans.

 

[Rence]

We have a neighbor that let his dogs out for a bathroom break in the middle of the night a couple nights ago. The dogs ran back to the house from the woods, which are right out the back door(tiny lawn), with a wolf chasing them.

All the more reason to SSS. Our game warden tells us to, "do what you have to do, I don't want to hear about it and I don't want to ever hear you ate it". And that's good enough for me.

I think it's one thing to go out and hunt them down, but it's a different story when you're protecting you and yours.

Yes, they deserve to live and yes, they're only doing their thing. But so are we.

 

[Farmer Kitty]

He never even thought to SSS--not awake enough. Although as wet as it was and the way their lawn is they could have proven the wolf was after the dogs and then they would have been legal to shoot them but, would have had to report it.

I think it's one thing to go out and hunt them down, but it's a different story when you're protecting you and yours.

Yes, they deserve to live and yes, they're only doing their thing. But so are we.

I'm assuming that you are against hunting them? Even to keep their population in check with the wild life in the area they live in? What about disease and starvation? Isn't allowing that to happen, cruelty?

 

[Rence]

I'm assuming that you are against hunting them? Even to keep their population in check with the wild life in the area they live in? What about disease and starvation? Isn't allowing that to happen, cruelty?

I'm going under the standpoint that they are illegal to kill. I didn't mean to get into the politics of hunting

I'm not against hunting them at all. Their population does need to be controlled for the reasons you mentioned. I don't want them mulitplying to the point of coming out of their turf and looking for food in our direction, or spreading their diseases in our direction. What's the point of allowing them to muliply if they will do so unhealthy, unhappy and desperate? The animals should be hearty and healthy, or why bother?

I'm not a hunter and it makes me feel awful to kill any animal. I hate slaughtering my own chickens even. And if I have to shoot my neighbors stupid dogs for attacking my chickens I will hate her for life for putting me in that position. But for me it's worse when you're "not supposed to". Some people will argue until their out of breathe that you can't kill an endangered animal at all. And others will argue until they pass out that you can, if it's a threat to you or yours. The point of my post was that I wasn't trying to break a law, just protect me and mine. An animal, endangered or not, is not as important as a human or what belongs to a human IMOHO. And I'm sure that comment will open up a different can of worms

 

[Farmer Kitty]

If you go back to the original post of this thread it's about the fact that they had been removed and then put back onto the endangered list. When they were removed from the endangered list, it opened them up to a much needed (IMO) controlled hunt. It's to bad, again IMO, that they were put on the endangered list as they are now in to high of populations--even by our unable to count DNR.