hair sheep compared to goats?

[boykin2010]

decisions, decisions...... What are the purposes of the cross breeds? Just for meat? Or would I still be able to get rid of them selling them as breeding stock? Also, I believe that I read somewhere that you can breed some breeds as early as 5 months, but what breed is this because all the ones I have read about seem to be about 7 mo.? And any opinions on the st. croix and dorper? I also read that the barbados blackbelly most often have twins, is this rare among the other hair sheep breeds?

Thanks again and sorry for all the questions,

Cross breeds, at least in my area, are solely for meat. I think I only sold 1 crossbred lamb this year for a breeder just because it was great quality. It was a Dorper x Katahdin. I have one dorper ewe and really like her. The only problem is that she only has 1 lamb each year. She is almost 5 and has never had a twin. Thankfully, her singles are always really nice quality and I hate to cull her. She was one of my first sheep I ever got.

Some breeds can be bred as early as 5 months but isn't recommended. Katahdins can sometimes breed this early and occasionally the Barbados also. Not sure about other breeds. I usually breed my ewe lambs when they are 7-8 months old. I like them to lamb when they reach a year.

I have never owned a St. Croix just because they are very hard to find in my area. There are some St. Croix mixes out there but not any purebreds. St. Croix in my opinion from researching are about the same as Katahdins.

All hair sheep breeds are very prolific. Most breeders try to get a 215-225% lamb crop from Katahdins. This means most ewes have twins and a few ewes have triplets. Usually triplets are expected out of the older more mature ewes because they can handle it. The only time a single is allowed is from a yearling. If a ewe had single her 2nd or 3rd year then for me and some other breeders she would be considered for culling.

My Katahdins far outproduce my barbados. They throw more lambs and the quality of the Kat lamb is always better. The Kat lambs are meatier, and mature faster. I will admit though, my barbados did not come from a big breeder. They came from a local guy. Most of my Katahdins came from excellent bloodlines and from reputable breeders so I may not be comparing apples to apples. If I had excellent barbados stock and the Katahdin stock i have now it would be a better comparison.

Hope this helps

 

[SheepGirl]

If you're still stuck on a breed, try my sheep breed selector (link in my signature)...there are two, one for common and one for uncommon breeds. You can't select based on the parasite tolerance of the breed, but you can select on the basis of prolificacy, growth rates, size, wool type & weight (or whether you want wool), hardiness, purpose of the sheep, and length of breeding season.

 

[boothcreek]

The bad thing with Barbados is they are flighty. Mine are not friendly at all and they are hard to catch when I want to sell them. My Katahdins however, walk right up and let me pet them and everything. Another reason I like Katahdins better than Barbados is that they throw all kinds of different colors. You really never know what you are going to get. You can breed a brown Kat to a white Kat and end up with a black and white spotted Kat lamb! Or breed 2 black sheep together and end up with a red and white spotted lamb. Barbados usually throw the same black and brown color pattern unless you end up with painted dessert sheep.

I had the exact opposite, my American Black bellies are pests you trip over and the kats I had you better sell them for meat and be good with a rifle otherwise there was no catching those suckers. My last 4 kats all had to be sniped off the pasture to bring to butcher and those kats were all from good breeders. I think it depends what type of instinct you can work best with/have the most understanding of. The way the kats reacted to things never made sense to me, if they reacted they overreacted and got hysterical and the blinders came down and from that moment that situation or anything similar was met with blind hysterics.

If you like the black belly type but want pattern get painted deserts, its always so much fun to see what I get out of my painted ewe when I try out different rams.

Yes the kats and dorpers grow much faster and meatier then the black bellies for sure, but for my free range set-up they and our european mouflon sheep fit just perfect and a 45lb lamb carcass has always been enough for us. I mainly breed to sell registered breeding stock and a few lambs for our freezer and maybe sell 1 or 2 for butcher to other people.

As for heats, my black belly ewe lambs start coming into heat at 4 months old usually(i dont breed them until 7 or 8 months tho).
My ewes give birth twice a year normally unless I think one isnt up for it and she gets to sit out for a few months, right now my girls are all on an additional one month break(just cause I rather have janurary lambs then december ones, then I have 4-h lambs to sell if I get inquiries). They come into heat promptly about a month after giving birth unless their condition is less then ideal.

 

[AMT15]

thanks for the great info. So you both are talking about the barbados blackbelly, correct? And for those of you who raise more than one breed, which is your favorite?

Thanks,

 

[boykin2010]

Yes, I am talking about Barbados blackbelly. boothcreek is talking about American Blackbellies. There is a difference in the breed I am just not sure what exactly. I own Barbados Blackbellies, Katahdins and a dorper ewe right now. I also used to have some wooled ewes. My favorites by far are the Katahdins.

All I know is that if selling lambs solely for meat I wouldn't go with the blackbelly. My blackbelly lambs are small and not as meaty. However, if you like the coloring and the fact they are parasite resistant and prolific then go for it. Barbados Blackbelly are known to be more skittish and stand-offish if you check the internet and talk with people. Partly from where they are from and how they are raised. There are some cases where it is the exact opposite and sometimes it has to do with the way the sheep was raised since it was born.

My Katahdins are calm, friendly, parasite resistant, prolific and produce good meaty lambs which could be used for breeding stock or meat. They fit me perfectly. Other breeds suit other people though.

boothcreek - I would be interested to know the difference between american and barbados blackbelly. I was hoping you may know. Maybe the barbados are known to be more skittish than american? You are the first person I have ever talked to that said the blackbelly were less skittish than Katahdins. My Kats are like dogs they come up and want you to scratch them and they follow people around wanting attention. The barbados I have to trap them in the barn if I need to catch them for something.

 

[AMT15]

Are the americans the ones with horns, sometimes used for hunting? Whereas the blackbelly is naturally polled and more domesticated?

 

[boykin2010]

I am not sure. I will have to do some researching to find out. All I know is that the ones I have were sold to me as "Barbados Blackbellies" but I am not sure exactly which they are right now.

 

[AMT15]

Anyone with st. croix? I believe I might like them better than the katahdins. But the fact that the katahdins were developed by being crossed with st. croix makes me think of them as improved st. croix, lol. but I haven't heard or read such.

 

[boothcreek]

Barbado seems to be slapped on any mutt sheep with horns and hair lately at auctions up here. At this point I see it as a "heinz 57" label. Seen a beauty kathadin ram last time I went and he had small horns growing and despite being white with brown splotches and clearly a kat he got sold as a barbado due to the horns(which sometimes happens in the breed).

There is the American Black Bellied Barbado - black and Tan badger markings and horns, usually registered/papered, there are unregistered ones but you should ask lots of questions then on background of the flock etc. This year the registry is still an open one so if you have a true breeding flock of ABBs get them registered @ BBSAI cause end of december 2012 it will close!!!!
The real Barbado Blackbellie - Black and Tan badger markings, completely 100% polled, only available from registered breeders, very rare(last I read around 200 pure animals left or something to that effect).

Then there is the grey zone that has horns and is a hair sheep so its called barbado/blackbelly but doesnt fit into above categories. They are usually crossed with mouflon(Wild sheep) and can vary greatly in markings and temperament etc.

Those inbetween sheep I see lots labeled as either corsican or texas barbado, since they are nice and feral and do well on the shooting ranches so no one bothers breeding to a certain standard as long as they have horns. Usually an ABB X Mouflon and other various breeds, so they usually retain most of the badger markings but can be crazy like the mouflon(altho those vary too, my mouf ram is a calm one, my mouf ewe will commit suicide if you as much as look at her too long....) and vary in intensity of coat colour/markings(badger black and tannish or white bellies like moufs).

I hope that cleared some confusion

 

[AMT15]

anyone with painted dessert sheep? they seem as good as the others except for being more flighty, right? Or are the other three breeds i've been considering more "improved"?