Herdsire Qualifications - DNA testing

[Green Acres Farm]

What are your qualifications for bucks born on your farm to leave intact as a herd sire?

I don't feel any of my does are herd sire quality yet, but would be interested to hear what other farm's policies are.

 

[Southern by choice]

Because we tend to keep so many bucks, we watch them grow out.
We often will use a young buck, if we think they are good enough to use, in our own herd first.
This way we KNOW what that buck can do.

Mostly, I go by eye. I trust that more than anything.
Sometimes a pedigree and or a LA score may be fantastic but the buck over "there" that doesn't have all that may still be the better buck.

If I wouldn't use the buck in my herd than it gets wethered.

There are great brood does that produce incredible animals. The ability to retain and know your goats IMO makes a big difference.

 

[Bayleaf Meadows]

Mother Earth News has an article on "How to Pick a Herdsire"- https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/selecting-a-herdsire-part-1
https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/choosing-a-herdsire-part-2
https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/choosing-a-herdsire-part-3

 

[Southern by choice]

Mother Earth News has an article on "How to Pick a Herdsire"- https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/selecting-a-herdsire-part-1
https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/choosing-a-herdsire-part-2
https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/choosing-a-herdsire-part-3

good article but a couple things come to mind.
None of these goats are set up or standing properly.

When looking at rear angulation if the the back legs are stretched out behind the animal it either is set up wrong or actually has poor back legs.

Pins, hocks, pasterns should be in a complete straight line... then look at angulation.
The last buck was set on a downward slope... so it makes it's rump look higher and this may be where it looks like it has a dip in the chine.

It is important to understand HOW people set an animal up.
We see this all the time... someone will set up a goat and take pics from behind and spread those rear legs a mile apart.
First, it looks like they are doing the splits, second, it looks stupid, third a new person or someone not knowing what they are looking at will think WOW great width between hocks where as the goat may NOT have good width at all.

Learning to critique your goat takes time. The other aspect is instead of the goat "set up" how does the goat look just natural? Out in the field?

In the second pic of the gold ND - he is to stretched out getting food to actually see his good qualities. This affects the rump and those rear legs.
The first ND "looks" very uphill but again look at the placement of those rear legs... way behind the goat. If they were in the right place would he look uphill? Would his rump be level? Would he be high in the rear?

I have a series of pics of Kenji- that I think are good teaching pics- if anyone is interested.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

I know some people who sell just about every buck born as a herd sire, and others who wether bucks out does who have appraised 90 and with CH status. I guess it comes down to what you feel comfortable with having your herd name on.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

We see this all the time... someone will set up a goat and take pics from behind and spread those rear legs a mile apart.
First, it looks like they are doing the splits, second, it looks stupid, third a new person or someone not knowing what they are looking at will think WOW great width between hocks where as the goat may NOT have good width at all.

That is my absolute pet peeve!

 

[Hens and Roos]

@Southern by choice we would like to see the pictures

 

[Southern by choice]

I know some people who sell just about every buck born as a herd sire, and others who wether bucks out does who have appraised 90 and with CH status. I guess it comes down to what you feel comfortable with having your herd name on.

One of our mentors entire herd is 90 or better and all on test, doesn't show anymore but- yes she wethers and sends almost every buck to market- they are exceptional animals but there is no point in having so many ... she keeps out about 2 bucks a year.
Again, LA is just a tool... never the whole picture.

That is my absolute pet peeve!

Mine too!

The article is good.

I also think there are some herds that are so established and so consistent that they can find that "not buck worthy" one and wether whereas the rest of their bucks are quality.

I also think people need to keep in mind. A Lucky Star or Rockin CB Buck is going to be awesome but also big $$$.
For many people that are starting out or breeding they cannot afford that nor can they get their $$$ back out of it.

 

[babsbag]

When I was looking for a new herdsire for my Alpines a few years back I had a hard time finding one that wasn't related to Tempo Aquila Freelance or his offspring. I know he was a great buck and all but I wasn't impressed with what that line was bringing into my herd. So I found a buck who's dam was a *milker, he wasn't a Tempo prodigy, and he looked good. He has been an awesome buck and brought some different bloodlines into a very crowed gene pool. AI doesn't always do the breed a favor.

My new Alpine herdsire was bought strictly because of his Alpha S1 Casein variants. He is a French Alpine, first one I have ever owned. He is young so we will see how he fills out. I have been told that French Alpine are usually narrow across the chest and so far he is that.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I think it's really important to retain animals and see how they do. Clover's buckling is staying here right now to see how he develops, his dam is very nice doe with a great udder.

Just something to think about- one of my best Nigerian Dwarf bucks came from a "no name" farm. They don't show, LA, or participate on milktest. But we saw the animals and waited for two years to get animals from a particular lineup. This is how we have Lil Joe. He has produced 15 (?) kids now and he has really stamped on some great things.

A goat that came from the same farm was heavily related to Lil Joe and did some great things as well. His daughters had substantially better udders than their dam. This little "no name" buck did wonders.

I have seen CH does that I would never even consider getting kids out of. Does that score 90 that just didn't strike my fancy. The numbers are great, but I want to breed something I like.

Right now I have 5 kids out of my other ND buck. They are all kids so it's a bit early to tell how they'll turn out. I am very excited to see how they do and expect good things.

Knowing the breeder is really important too.

Hopefully we will be doing LA and Milktest this year. Right now my goats are doing quite well in the show ring and are milking great.