OneFineAcre
Herd Master
I restrain them in my lap, and M does the iron.
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Horns? Dis-bud? Polled?
- Thread starter Southern by choice
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promiseacres
Herd Master
good article! can apply it to sheep too 
- Thread starter
- #13
Southern by choice
Herd Master
Thank You.
I did not know people dis-budded sheep. Is it a common practice or with certain breeds? Is it a show requirement for some breeds?
I did not know people dis-budded sheep. Is it a common practice or with certain breeds? Is it a show requirement for some breeds?
promiseacres
Herd Master
it's very similar to the goat issues... I'm only somewhat familiar with past 4H experiences but some clubs require no horns but w/o horns my PD & DD they would not qualify for registration w/o. Of course I think that there are many more polled breeds/lines of sheep, especially those being shown. The reason I ended up with my original 4 sheep was b/c the owners didn't want to disbud for their 4H club so were changing breeds. As flightly as my sheep are I'm very glad for the horns to use as handles....
Sweetened
Herd Master
I will purchase a disbudded/dehorned animal, however I will not do it to one I own, save the botched scurrs that become an issue, then a vet will be involved.
I learned goats exhaust heat through their horns and that they are incredibly sensitive. I've seen people say having a horned goat/cow/sheep is a 'waste' of a good animal. I don't find my polled animals any less aggressive than my horned ones. In fact, I find they have to jostle MORE in order to fight for rank. My Saanen buckling was disbudded when I bought him, and he now has wobbly scurrs that crack, break and bleed when he does typical goat behavior. They're incredbily painful for him and, come the warmer weather, I will be paying to have a vet come, sedate him and redo the dehorning.
I have heard an arguement that it's not 'painful' for them, and that they react to fear and I must say, I give animals far more credit than that. I think we're beyond the science stages of performing open heart surgery on live dogs, and I don't consider it much different. Horns are a living part of the animal. I don't wrong those who do it, but it is very much not for me.
I learned goats exhaust heat through their horns and that they are incredibly sensitive. I've seen people say having a horned goat/cow/sheep is a 'waste' of a good animal. I don't find my polled animals any less aggressive than my horned ones. In fact, I find they have to jostle MORE in order to fight for rank. My Saanen buckling was disbudded when I bought him, and he now has wobbly scurrs that crack, break and bleed when he does typical goat behavior. They're incredbily painful for him and, come the warmer weather, I will be paying to have a vet come, sedate him and redo the dehorning.
I have heard an arguement that it's not 'painful' for them, and that they react to fear and I must say, I give animals far more credit than that. I think we're beyond the science stages of performing open heart surgery on live dogs, and I don't consider it much different. Horns are a living part of the animal. I don't wrong those who do it, but it is very much not for me.
OneFineAcre
Herd Master
I did not know that either.
- Thread starter
- #17
Southern by choice
Herd Master
I am not "pro" disbudding nor am I "anti" disbudding.
Disbudding is an elective procedure just as spaying or neutering a dog or cat, wethering an animal by banding or surgical castration, ear cropping(dogs) notching (farm animals), tail docking (dogs and livestock)... the list goes on- these are all elective procedures with different ways of doing them and risk with all of them.
It can be such a heated debate but ultimately each person will need to evaluate and make a decision that suits them and they are comfortable with.
Through the years I have heard many things that I find rather silly said about the subject.
Some silly things...
1. no one will buy a horned dairy goat...
2. they don't feel it because they go into shock...
3. disbudded goats can't be with horned goats...
4. sedation is way more dangerous...
5. never walk a goat around by it's horns because it hurts...
6. they are not dairy goats if they have horns...
...the list goes on of course.
1. Truth is we have more people wanting horns than not...
2. duh, they are in shock because it is painful...
3. we have horned, polled, disbudded ( our polled girl is the defender of the herd- no issues with her being at the bottom of the pecking order at all, she is at the top of the pecking order)...
4. whether sedation or not, there is risk, yet the risk is higher if your vet isn't really good at sedating, I have worked with many vets (in a professional capacity) some are good with sedation, some are not. Usually the ones that are very nervous about it are ones that are not all that comfortable or proficient at sedation- several of the goat vets that do a great deal of disbudding in our region use some sort of sedation, we have also seen very few scurs from these vets...
5. it does not hurt a goat to hold onto it's horns...
6. goats have been giving milk for thousands of years... before disbudding was a word.
I think each person and each farm environment is unique and the individual circumstances and environment can truly only be determined by the goat owner.
I like horns!
I like polled!
I also like my Lamanchas disbudded!
My LGD's wish our one Lamancha WAS disbudded!
Disbudding is an elective procedure just as spaying or neutering a dog or cat, wethering an animal by banding or surgical castration, ear cropping(dogs) notching (farm animals), tail docking (dogs and livestock)... the list goes on- these are all elective procedures with different ways of doing them and risk with all of them.
It can be such a heated debate but ultimately each person will need to evaluate and make a decision that suits them and they are comfortable with.
Through the years I have heard many things that I find rather silly said about the subject.
Some silly things...
1. no one will buy a horned dairy goat...
2. they don't feel it because they go into shock...
3. disbudded goats can't be with horned goats...
4. sedation is way more dangerous...
5. never walk a goat around by it's horns because it hurts...
6. they are not dairy goats if they have horns...
...the list goes on of course.
1. Truth is we have more people wanting horns than not...
2. duh, they are in shock because it is painful...
3. we have horned, polled, disbudded ( our polled girl is the defender of the herd- no issues with her being at the bottom of the pecking order at all, she is at the top of the pecking order)...
4. whether sedation or not, there is risk, yet the risk is higher if your vet isn't really good at sedating, I have worked with many vets (in a professional capacity) some are good with sedation, some are not. Usually the ones that are very nervous about it are ones that are not all that comfortable or proficient at sedation- several of the goat vets that do a great deal of disbudding in our region use some sort of sedation, we have also seen very few scurs from these vets...
5. it does not hurt a goat to hold onto it's horns...
6. goats have been giving milk for thousands of years... before disbudding was a word.
I think each person and each farm environment is unique and the individual circumstances and environment can truly only be determined by the goat owner.
I like horns!
I like polled!
I also like my Lamanchas disbudded!
My LGD's wish our one Lamancha WAS disbudded!
OneFineAcre
Herd Master
I don't even have an interest in debating this subject, and I know you (Southern) are not trying to debate it with me.
I thought your article was good and presented the different perspectives. Although I will have to say I've sold every goat I've wanted or needed to sell, and I have never once had someone contact me and say they wanted a horned goat. I guess my experience is different than yours if you say more people want them with horns.
I honestly do not care what other people do with their animals as far as horned or disbudding is concerned. Nor, do I feel the need to justify what I do in this regard with anyone on this forum. I show my goats in ADGA sanctioned dairy goat shows.. You can't show goats in an ADGA sanctioned show with horns. It's as simple as that.
I thought your article was good and presented the different perspectives. Although I will have to say I've sold every goat I've wanted or needed to sell, and I have never once had someone contact me and say they wanted a horned goat. I guess my experience is different than yours if you say more people want them with horns.
I honestly do not care what other people do with their animals as far as horned or disbudding is concerned. Nor, do I feel the need to justify what I do in this regard with anyone on this forum. I show my goats in ADGA sanctioned dairy goat shows.. You can't show goats in an ADGA sanctioned show with horns. It's as simple as that.
- Thread starter
- #19
Southern by choice
Herd Master
Good Post One Fine! 
I appreciate all the different perspectives and experiences, and you are 100% right the purpose was to be rather un-biased and simply offer different options.
Personally I have learned to appreciate both sides of the argument.
I have a Lamancha
I appreciate all the different perspectives and experiences, and you are 100% right the purpose was to be rather un-biased and simply offer different options.
Personally I have learned to appreciate both sides of the argument.
I have a Lamancha
Most sheep are genetically polled. The breeds with horns are normally kept with them, as they are a part of the breed, and usually what separates them from another breed (ie the Dorset and the Dorset Horn).
I don't know of anyone or any breed that is disbudded/dehorned. All the popular breeds that are shown...Suffolk, Hamp, Southdown, Montadale, Cheviot, Dorper, Dorset, etc, are all naturally polled. Occasionally you will have scurs pop up (I had scurs on my 1/2 Texel ram lamb, but they fell off by themselves with no bleeding when he was 4-5 months old) but that's as much horn as they get.
I don't know of anyone or any breed that is disbudded/dehorned. All the popular breeds that are shown...Suffolk, Hamp, Southdown, Montadale, Cheviot, Dorper, Dorset, etc, are all naturally polled. Occasionally you will have scurs pop up (I had scurs on my 1/2 Texel ram lamb, but they fell off by themselves with no bleeding when he was 4-5 months old) but that's as much horn as they get.
