How much land do I want?

[LMK17]

@misfitmorgan Thanks again for your thoughts! Yes, strangely, most of those places I posted sold or went off market in the past week! I wasn't expecting that!

I did see that place you posted, and I have given it some thought. In the end, I decided I don't want to live in a manufactured home. We get some nasty weather, and it seems to me that when a storm comes though and there are casualties, the folks most likely to be injured or killed are either in a mobile home or a car. I have considered whether we would want to buy a nice property with a mobile home and-- if the purchase price were right-- eventually build a home and use the mobile as a guest house. Still haven't decided on whether that makes sense for us, though.

Check out this place. I really don't know how to evaluate pastureland, but this place sure has a lot of spring growth! Plus they're set up for animals. Fences look pretty good, 2 ponds, water wells, and some other animal-friendly infrastructure. What do you all think?
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6594-County-Road-401-Floresville-TX-78114/2094923460_zpid/

The only thing that would scare me about a place on so much acreage, though, is maintaining all that land. (And fences, too, but for the sake of argument, let's say that place has nice, newish fences and I don't need to touch them until I get this farming thing under my belt a bit!) Anyway, I think I would try to move animals quickly enough to keep the grass somewhere between a few inches from the ground and maturing & producing seeds? How often would I need to mow? Only if the grass gets too mature and starts going to seed? Otherwise, I just let it go? If the growth gets high in a paddock, can I cut it for hay? (And how do you do that?!) What about irrigating and fertilizing? I want to follow an organic program, so ammend as needed at move-in and then just maintain? Send the chickens in to scratch through the cow pies in the most recently grazed paddock, lightly harrow if I get some thatch build-up, seed if I want to establish something in particular? Anything else I'm missing? How often would I want to go through and check for toxic plants? How would I irrigate the pastures? Does one irrigate pastureland? The land scares me!

This one is in Mico, my niece and her husband live there and work in S.A.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa...21,-97.769394,29.322924,-99.142685_rect/9_zm/

Mico is pretty! Unfortunately, it's NW SA, and my husband works in NE SA... The commute is a little dicey from there. My husband more or less draws the line at 1 hr each way, and most parts of Mico are a tad outside that. Also, that place is a bit over our price range. I think we need to top out around $500k... Goodness, though! I wish that one were on the table! It's gorgeous!

 

[Reindeermama]

@Reindeermama we didn't know your Grandpa, Bart, but we knew his brother Ester. Ester Duff lived on the corner about a mile or two from my parents. Ester was like a father to my husband and would check on him every Monday to see if he needed bailed out of jail. He was quite the party animal. LOL-I didn't know him then.....funny how my husband and I passed so close to each other so many times over the years, but didn't meet. The Duffs are an old family in Polk County and were well respected.

 

[Reindeermama]

Oops hit wrong button. So much fun realizing what a small world it is. We probably all met at one time or another, and just never knew it.

 

[misfitmorgan]

@misfitmorgan Thanks again for your thoughts! Yes, strangely, most of those places I posted sold or went off market in the past week! I wasn't expecting that!

I did see that place you posted, and I have given it some thought. In the end, I decided I don't want to live in a manufactured home. We get some nasty weather, and it seems to me that when a storm comes though and there are casualties, the folks most likely to be injured or killed are either in a mobile home or a car. I have considered whether we would want to buy a nice property with a mobile home and-- if the purchase price were right-- eventually build a home and use the mobile as a guest house. Still haven't decided on whether that makes sense for us, though.

Check out this place. I really don't know how to evaluate pastureland, but this place sure has a lot of spring growth! Plus they're set up for animals. Fences look pretty good, 2 ponds, water wells, and some other animal-friendly infrastructure. What do you all think?
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6594-County-Road-401-Floresville-TX-78114/2094923460_zpid/

The only thing that would scare me about a place on so much acreage, though, is maintaining all that land. (And fences, too, but for the sake of argument, let's say that place has nice, newish fences and I don't need to touch them until I get this farming thing under my belt a bit!) Anyway, I think I would try to move animals quickly enough to keep the grass somewhere between a few inches from the ground and maturing & producing seeds? How often would I need to mow? Only if the grass gets too mature and starts going to seed? Otherwise, I just let it go? If the growth gets high in a paddock, can I cut it for hay? (And how do you do that?!) What about irrigating and fertilizing? I want to follow an organic program, so ammend as needed at move-in and then just maintain? Send the chickens in to scratch through the cow pies in the most recently grazed paddock, lightly harrow if I get some thatch build-up, seed if I want to establish something in particular? Anything else I'm missing? How often would I want to go through and check for toxic plants? How would I irrigate the pastures? Does one irrigate pastureland? The land scares me!



Mico is pretty! Unfortunately, it's NW SA, and my husband works in NE SA... The commute is a little dicey from there. My husband more or less draws the line at 1 hr each way, and most parts of Mico are a tad outside that. Also, that place is a bit over our price range. I think we need to top out around $500k... Goodness, though! I wish that one were on the table! It's gorgeous!

The one i posted is a modular not a mobile but i know some people dont like those either. It seems to me like you want something more unique then plain vinyl siding...which i totally get lol.

That new place looks nice. The pasture looks good, it would be interesting to see how well it did in the summer heat though as it looks a little patchy. I looked at google maps for this property and the number 3 property from your other post. I would again say number 3 is better suited for year round pasture feeding desire if you got the additional 11 acres to the west of the house parcel which would give you just under 24 acres. The difference in the pasture land is that number 3 has many many trees/bushes/shrubs to provide shade for your livestock and the pasture grasses itself, this new acerage you asked about has some trees/bushes/shrubs in approx a little less then 1/3 of the acreage and they are more sparse then the number 3 place. If your wanting to make hay this new place would be better suited assuming the pasture didnt go crispy before hay cutting time. This new place does have more building for your money and being fenced and cross fenced is always good. If you go look at these properties to help decide between them make sure you check for water in the livestock buildings or really close by because lugging buckets of water gets really old really fast esp in summer when they drink a lot more water. You will also want to check for electric in these buildings because chores by flash light are also a really big pain and makes everything take longer. If the buildings dont have water/electric i would plan on getting it installed.

As far as making hay goes...it can be quite costly to start and learn. For equipment you need a tractor, mower/conditioner, hay rake, baler(round or square) and preferably a hay wagon though you could use a large heavy duty trailer behind a large truck too. You also need someone who is going to do the manual labor of loading and stacking square bales or a bale spear to move round bales. You also need a storage place/space, for square you need indoor storage and for rounds you can store outside but indoor is always better. You need to find out the right time of year to cut, how many cuts to expect, when to tell when your fields are "ripe" to cut, also when the hay is dry enough to be baled but not so dry it gets dusty quickly. Find out f you have blister beetles in that area and ways to test or prevent if possible them getting in your hay. You will also need to get twine or netting(round bales can use either, square only uses twine). Most Ag extensions have a moisture meter they loan out for testing hay bales. If you bale to early after cutting the hay will be to wet and heat up and may ignite(it happens a lot), if you bale to late after cutting you will make dusty hay. You also need to watch the weather and look for a long enough window for you to be able to cut, dry, rake, bale, load, and store with no rain. Here we look for a 3 day window but your in texas so probly can do it faster. We cut on day 1, rake/bale/load on day 2, and store on day 3. If it is a large field we will store some on day 2 as well so we can go back and load the wagon again but we do have 4 wagons. You may or may not choose to make hay, the equipment is not cheap and it can be a steep learning curve if you dont have anyone to show you the process.

As far as keeping the land managed depending on your fields it may be in your interested to let them mature and seed out for a few months or a season esp after your livestock has been thru that pasture and eaten it down to 3-4 inches as they will leave that lovely fertilizer behind. Repeating this process over many years will improve your soil and make it real soil instead of sand thus improving your pasture. To make good soil you need organic matter decomposing into the ground whether it is fetilizer, leaves, old hay, compost, dead grass thatch, etc. That is why mowing lawns makes then look nicer and thicker over the years, the gras clippings are adding organic matter to the soil over and over....this is assuming you long cut your grass otherwise it is likely crispy by july. Going out once or twice a year and mowing down a pasture you havnt used would be perfectly find i think.

Since it does get so hot in texas and you will have the extra space esp in the first few years it is reasonable to only let your livestock graze pasture down to 5-6 inches tall, this will give it the best chance of staying green and growing as much as possible. How fast you have to move your livestock thru depends on the size of each pasture, you will learn when it looks right to move them and fairly quickly.

Yes you can cut any pasture/paddock for hay if it gets really long. Going to seed once again is not a bad thing, thats letting your pasture improve itself for free. Your animals should be doing the fertilizing for you and with enough shade trees/bushes irrigation wouldnt be needed except in the hot hot parts of summer maybe. Mostly irrigation is needed when you have way to much livestock on to small of a pasture where the grass must grow very fast or turn to dirt...you shouldnt have that problem. These would typically be cattle operations, like the ones you see around with center pivots. If you look at google maps it seems to stay fairly green in that area and i doubt everyone uses irrigation on all of the fields.

You can take a soil sample and send it in for testing to see what your soil lacks and amend it as needed when you move in and then probably just check it every couples years. Here we are typically always lacking either nitrogen or lyme, you are probly different but after getting testing a few times over several years you will know when you need to amend, how much of what you need to add and can put it on a schedule. Something like year 1, 3, 5 we need to add 1 ton of lyme to pasture and year 2, 4, 6 we need to add 1/2ton of nitrogen to pasture...but yours probly will be completely different. Send in a sample from each different pasture and see what the results say, they will tell you what to add and in what amount. Legumes always take less nitrogen then grasses as well so that could affect what each pasture needs. This is also not hard though.

Seed if you want some certain forage plant added yes, you can send in chicken anytime as they are good for getting rid of some of the yucky bugs. I believe most people check their fields twice a year for toxic plants assuming they do not have a known problem more often if they do and how often if they do depends on how fast that plant grows/spreads.

You hopefully wont need to irrigate your pastures if you do need to there are many ways to do it. You can use drip hoses you put out when livestock are not in the pasture. You can use impact/ratchet sprinklers(4 cover about an acre) we went cheap and bought the ones with lawn spikes on the bottom then zip tied them to t-posts to water our garden and then we hooked up the hoses to a water manifold and a water timer...labor free garden water in spades. Our garden is approx an acre+/-. You could get a sprayer to pull behind your tractor and set it to spray very heavy then drive around you pasture..this could get costly on gas but would work. Something like this:
http://www.grasshopperfertilizer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Crop-Sprayer.jpg
They make big big ones and small ones, self-propelled and tow behind. They are normally used to spray pesticides but we made a new cart on a hay wagon frame minus decking and swapped out the smaller tank for a 500 gallon tank to water row crops. You could of course get a pivot irrigation or normal crop irrigation but wow that is big big bucks and generally requires a dedicated deep well of its own.

Thatch isn't entirely bad on its own in smaller amounts either as it helps hold moisture in the ground for you. We let our thatch in the hay fields build up for about 5yrs at a time.

Honestly 90% of all of this is a once a year or less job, it is not hard to have good pasture land and not be out there daily/weekly maintaining it. We let our pasture grow 4 ft tall then turn the livestock out on it and they love it, in a couple weeks it is eaten down to about half a foot. Of course do not just let them out on new lush pasture like that without already coming off a previous lush pasture...when we do it we do it for a few hours and extend the time day by day until after about a week they are given 24hr access. We have never ever mowed our pasture and never would, we have never harrowed it, fertilized it, irrigated it, etc. You put up good fence once and it will last you 20-30yrs. Some of the fences around here that cattle farmers still use are from the 1930s with very very very minimal maintenance.

 

[LMK17]

Wow, @misfitmorgan! Once again, thanks a ton for the response! Really appreciate it! Only have a moment to post right now, but couple quick questions:

How can you tell that one you posted is modular vs mobile? I can't really tell if that's a slab foundation under it or just nice skirting? Although I guess it's a little lower to the ground than most skirting is? Honestly, I'm fine with modular. In fact, if we were to build a place, we'd probably go that route.

We actually went and viewed that "3rd one" that we were discussing... Unfortunately, the house is right on a major highway with a speed limit of 70mph- definitely not good for the kiddos. The fences need quite a bit of work, too, and the land certainly is lush! So lush, in fact, that you can barely see the ground; it's all brush and trees-- at least, what's visible from the house is. It looked like it would need considerable work. The house is pretty nice, though, especially given its age.

And a more general question for anyone willing to chime in:

These 2 properties are similar in acreage and are located within a couple miles of one another:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6594-County-Road-401-Floresville-TX-78114/2094923460_zpid/
https://www.zillow.com/homes/2730-County-Road-232,-Floresville,-TX-78114_rb/

The first one has 2 ponds and 2 wells, a much older and smaller house, possibly lower quality pasture, a few fewer acres, and is priced nearly $100K higher. The second one doesn't seem to have any wells or ponds. Both claim to be fenced and cross fenced and have nice looking outbuildings. Which of the two would you chose, and why? I'm trying to get a feel for comparing one farm to another.

Seems to me that having multiple water sources-- especially here in TX-- would be a major plus. My thinking is that a less awesome pasture could be renovated over time, but digging wells or building ponds would be considerably more work and expense. Then again, the second property is nearly $100K less AND has a bigger and newer house. So I dunno...?

 

[Reindeermama]

LMK17, wells are expensive. Before we sold our cabin in Leakey, we checked into it. $17,000. There is also the pump house, filter system, and pump. I think you have some good options. I think the pecan orchard is a plus on the first one. Our friend has a small pecan orchard, and makes about $8000.00 off it per year. My friend who is a real estate agent says to take around 8 to 10 % off asking price for a first offer. That doesn't work if it is a highly sought after area. I would worry about the second one because it has been on the market for 196 days. Why so long on the market? I think Misfitmorgan can give you better advice on the pasture. My husband would choose the first one because of the stock tanks. The metal roof is a plus...Farm Bureau insurance gives you a discount of 20% for a metal roof. That house looks really solid too.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Wow, @misfitmorgan! Once again, thanks a ton for the response! Really appreciate it! Only have a moment to post right now, but couple quick questions:

How can you tell that one you posted is modular vs mobile? I can't really tell if that's a slab foundation under it or just nice skirting? Although I guess it's a little lower to the ground than most skirting is? Honestly, I'm fine with modular. In fact, if we were to build a place, we'd probably go that route.

We actually went and viewed that "3rd one" that we were discussing... Unfortunately, the house is right on a major highway with a speed limit of 70mph- definitely not good for the kiddos. The fences need quite a bit of work, too, and the land certainly is lush! So lush, in fact, that you can barely see the ground; it's all brush and trees-- at least, what's visible from the house is. It looked like it would need considerable work. The house is pretty nice, though, especially given its age.

And a more general question for anyone willing to chime in:

These 2 properties are similar in acreage and are located within a couple miles of one another:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6594-County-Road-401-Floresville-TX-78114/2094923460_zpid/
https://www.zillow.com/homes/2730-County-Road-232,-Floresville,-TX-78114_rb/

The first one has 2 ponds and 2 wells, a much older and smaller house, possibly lower quality pasture, a few fewer acres, and is priced nearly $100K higher. The second one doesn't seem to have any wells or ponds. Both claim to be fenced and cross fenced and have nice looking outbuildings. Which of the two would you chose, and why? I'm trying to get a feel for comparing one farm to another.

Seems to me that having multiple water sources-- especially here in TX-- would be a major plus. My thinking is that a less awesome pasture could be renovated over time, but digging wells or building ponds would be considerably more work and expense. Then again, the second property is nearly $100K less AND has a bigger and newer house. So I dunno...?

Your welcome

The base of that house definitely looks like a foundation, it is to short(esp on the right) to have frame/wheel gear under it, as well as most mobile's do not come in 2,800sqft size with things like 2 living rooms. Single wides are limited to 16' wide and double wides are limited to 28' wide so even if it was a double wide it would need to be a 100' long trailer which they also don't make, they could have an addition on a mobile making it 2,800sqft but looking at google maps there is no addition that i can see. You can ask to make sure but i'm pretty sure that is just a modular house on a foundation/slab.

Honestly i would go look at both of them so you know what is there. Based on google maps that second "pond" looks like an old manure lagoon. The real estate agents or personal sellers rarely show you the whole picture either because they wanna sell it. There could be something really wrong with either of the places that we just cant see from pictures or google maps. The second place depending on how the parcel is cut may or may not have a pond on it..there are 2 ponds near where i "think" the property lines would be but i'm not sure...also depending on the property lines there may be a lack of trees on place 2 as well in the main pasture area.

Seems to me for 100k more you could put in several wells or ponds and still get the place for less. I did like the sound of the pecan orchard but it is all a balance....income from pecans could be largely offset by the cost of supplementing forage as well as it looks like the less then 1/3 wooded area is the pecan orchard.

LMK17, wells are expensive. Before we sold our cabin in Leakey, we checked into it. $17,000. There is also the pump house, filter system, and pump. I think you have some good options. I think the pecan orchard is a plus on the first one. Our friend has a small pecan orchard, and makes about $8000.00 off it per year. My friend who is a real estate agent says to take around 8 to 10 % off asking price for a first offer. That doesn't work if it is a highly sought after area. I would worry about the second one because it has been on the market for 196 days. Why so long on the market? I think Misfitmorgan can give you better advice on the pasture. My husband would choose the first one because of the stock tanks. The metal roof is a plus...Farm Bureau insurance gives you a discount of 20% for a metal roof. That house looks really solid too.

Again i would assume the 100K difference would offset the cost of a second well or a pond. I think since it would be a livestock well there would be no pump house or filter system, here a livestock/garden well is a underground pump, well pipe(boot), and spigot on the top....thats it. If your taking 10% off that would make house one 404k and house two 324k so house two would only be 80k less

As far as time on the market...who knows but only being promoted by the seller on sites like zillow isn't the best advertising as well as most people preferring to buy thru a real estate agent means there could be relatively little to nothing wrong with it. I definitely think the metal roof is a big plus on house one. Those stock tanks are super cheap....TSC 100gal $65 300gal $250.

 

[Reindeermama]

Okay, let me clarify Misfitmorgan. I am not talking about stock tanks like you are talking about stock tanks. To me, stock tanks are ponds. Also, since my husband and I currently have 4 properties, I do know what I am talking about. We do investment properties. My friend owes a real estate business. My uncle was an appraiser. He taught me quite a bit. Yes, both need to be looked at.

It is a mobile home on the second. As far as size of a mobile home, Palm Harbor makes what is called a triple wide. One of their largest triple wide runs 2952 sq. ft. Just so you know. How do I know it is a mobile home. It was listed on Realtor.com for $243,910. in 2009. It had more pictures of the inside and outside. It was last sold in 2015. The mobile was added in 2003. It was 2356 sq. ft., so it has been added on apparently. The outbuildings are nice. This is the back of the home.

Most of the land in this area averages about $6000.00 an acre.(raw land, no improvements) Smaller pieces of land will cost more.

Regardless, when you buy a property with a well you need to have the water tested, have a foundation inspection, termite inspection, plumbing static test, and a good house inspection. Water tests are necessary because there can be arsenic, bacteria, and the salinity level needs to be taken in consideration. These can all be corrected with the right filters. This is for the well water you will be drinking and using to take baths in. My brother-in-law works in Austin at the TNRCC. That is why I know about water quality issues. On wells, it is usually $15. or $20. a foot to drill a well. The first one is on community water for the house, so you don't have to worry about a water quality test. Stock ponds usually cost $10,000 plus.

The most important thing LMK17 is you get a buyer's agent to represent your interests. Don't go through the seller's agent. The second one is being sold by the owner. You will need a lawyer for this one.

 

[Reindeermama]

2730 County Road 232, Floresville, TX 78114 is a mobile home built in 2003. This property was last sold for - in 2015

According to the Floresville public records, the property at 2730 County Road 232, Floresville, TX 78114 has approximately 2,356 square feet, with a lot size of 29.19 acres

County has land at $157,640, Improvements $60,940, Appraised $69,240, This adds up to $287,830.00 I think the $69,240 is for the mobile home.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Okay, let me clarify Misfitmorgan. I am not talking about stock tanks like you are talking about stock tanks. To me, stock tanks are ponds. Also, since my husband and I currently have 4 properties, I do know what I am talking about.

To us stock tanks are stock tanks since it is illegal in the entire state to water livestock with surface water or flowing water aka ponds, creeks, streams, rivers...etc. Not sure what the number of properties you own has to do with anything. as far as i know anyone with enough money or credit can buy as many properties they would like. I can go buy 10 acres of swamp for 5k but it has no bearing on the conversation here now does it.

It is a mobile home on the second. How do I know it is a mobile home. It was listed on Realtor.com for $243,910. in 2009.

Good to know on the mobile homes i was going on the info i had in the one picture of the front of the house and what google earth showed. Triple wides do not exist here because of snow load laws. Now they dont have to bother looking at the place.

Regardless, when you buy a property with a well you need to have the water tested, have a foundation inspection, termite inspection, plumbing static test, and a good house inspection. Water tests are necessary because there can be arsenic, bacteria, and the salinity level needs to be taken in consideration. These can all be corrected with the right filters.

Here we do have normal home inspection but we do not test well water or any seperate inspections of that other stuff beyond a normal home inspection, our normal inspections include termite and foundation.

This is for the well water you will be drinking and using to take baths in.

So as i said....they wouldnt need to have the well tested nor need a filter system, pump house, pressure tank etc for a livestock well.

Stock ponds usually cost $10,000 plus.

Here ponds cost 2-8k depending on size to pay someone else but people only put ponds in here to have something to look at since they cant water out of them and they put them in with their own or rented equipment.

So @LMK17 if you still dont wanna live in a mobile that just leaves the other place to go look at with the pecan orchard.