How much land do I want?

[Reindeermama]

If we were buying either one of these as an investment property, it would be the first one. I would offer $415,000. as a starting point after finding a real estate agent to represent me, depending on their opinion. The house is valued at $198,000 approximately. If the land is worth $156,000. that would $354,000. I am not including the value of wells, stock ponds, or outbuildings in this calculation. I would probably pay no more than $430,000. You will need a new survey, because the county records show 43 acres. I don't know exactly how they are dividing the acreage up. If you are interested in this one I mean. Just be patient, we looked for months before we found the one we wanted as our home, and not investment.

Improvement #1: RESIDENTIAL State Code: E1 Living Area: 2067.0 sqft Value: N/A
Type Description Class CD Exterior Wall Year Built SQFT
MA MAIN AREA RV7 ST 1970 2067.0
OP COVERED PORCH OR PATIO 7 1970 110.0
OP COVERED PORCH OR PATIO 7 1970 273.0
DG DETACHED GARAGE 3 1970 1350.0
STG STORAGE BUILDING 4 1970 630.0
GH GREEN HOUSE 1 1970 540.0
METAL BLDG METAL BLDG PE1 0 1200.0
STG STORAGE BUILDING 2 0 288.0
METAL BLDG METAL BLDG STL1 0 225.0
SHED STEEL SHED STEEL (MTL SIDING) OP1 0 675.0
Improvement #2: MISC FARM/RANCH IMPROVEMENTS State Code: D2 Living Area: sqft Value: N/A
Type Description Class CD Exterior Wall Year Built SQFT
SHED STEEL SHED STEEL (MTL SIDING) OP1 1970 1800.0

 

[Reindeermama]

Misfitmorgan, actually that second one at one time may have been a pig farm. lol So, it is very possible it could have been a manure lagoon. Here we test for everything. Foundation problems are big problem. Termites are too. The home inspectors here will tell you if they think you might have a plumbing or termite problem, but will not guarantee their inspection for these problems. So most people call in specialized inspectors. We test well water here, because there are problem areas in certain counties. For example, one place we bought has arsenic and high salinity. All taken care of with proper filtering. Also, we can have rotten egg smelling water wells from sulfur in the water table. A lot of the stock ponds have to be lined if the pond is put in an area with sandy soil, because it won't hold otherwise. Didn't mean to sound mean. lol One county has radionuclides in the water table from uranium mining that took place in the 1950's.

 

[misfitmorgan]

If we were buying either one of these as an investment property, it would be the first one. I would offer $415,000. as a starting point after finding a real estate agent to represent me, depending on their opinion. The house is valued at $198,000 approximately. If the land is worth $156,000. that would $354,000. I am not including the value of wells, stock ponds, or outbuildings in this calculation. I would probably pay no more than $430,000. You will need a new survey, because the county records show 43 acres. I don't know exactly how they are dividing the acreage up. If you are interested in this one I mean. Just be patient, we looked for months before we found the one we wanted as our home, and not investment.

Improvement #1: RESIDENTIAL State Code: E1 Living Area: 2067.0 sqft Value: N/A
Type Description Class CD Exterior Wall Year Built SQFT
MA MAIN AREA RV7 ST 1970 2067.0
OP COVERED PORCH OR PATIO 7 1970 110.0
OP COVERED PORCH OR PATIO 7 1970 273.0
DG DETACHED GARAGE 3 1970 1350.0
STG STORAGE BUILDING 4 1970 630.0
GH GREEN HOUSE 1 1970 540.0
METAL BLDG METAL BLDG PE1 0 1200.0
STG STORAGE BUILDING 2 0 288.0
METAL BLDG METAL BLDG STL1 0 225.0
SHED STEEL SHED STEEL (MTL SIDING) OP1 0 675.0
Improvement #2: MISC FARM/RANCH IMPROVEMENTS State Code: D2 Living Area: sqft Value: N/A
Type Description Class CD Exterior Wall Year Built SQFT
SHED STEEL SHED STEEL (MTL SIDING) OP1 1970 1800.0

Wish we had a spiffy website like that one..all we have is the county tax site and it doesnt break down values like that.

Misfitmorgan, actually that second one at one time may have been a pig farm. lol So, it is very possible it could have been a manure lagoon. Here we test for everything. Foundation problems are big problem. Termites are too. The home inspectors here will tell you if they think you might have a plumbing or termite problem, but will not guarantee their inspection for these problems. So most people call in specialized inspectors. We test well water here, because there are problem areas in certain counties. For example, one place we bought has arsenic and high salinity. All taken care of with proper filtering. Also, we can have rotten egg smelling water wells from sulfur in the water table. A lot of the stock ponds have to be lined if the pond is put in an area with sandy soil, because it won't hold otherwise. Didn't mean to sound mean. lol One county has radionuclides in the water table from uranium mining that took place in the 1950's.

It's ok

We get sulfur here to and rust but no one really seems to care. We can get free water testing done thru our health department but most dont. Remind me never to move to the radionuclides county. Here by one part of the old air base they have to have some special filters on their wells and certain times of the year the county has to give them free potable water because they cant use their well water for drinking/eatting/showering.

We do get termites here but people still dont seem concerned about them for some reason...maybe because winter makes them hibernate?? no idea. No need to line our ponds because the water table is like 25ft from the ground service so it stays wet most places if you get down to 10ft the pond will fill itself.

The biggest foundation issue we have is frost heave and it sucks!!

 

[Reindeermama]

Actually with the right filters, you can actually filter out the radionuclides. Frost Heave sounds bad. Here the foundations will shift due to clay. It is called Black land farm. Termites, I guess stay active more year around here. We don't get snow much here or freezes. Do you have to fix the foundations with snow heave?
You can fix rust and sulfur with "wait for it" the right kind of filter.Here they call it a iron filter. It even filters out the smell.

We are doing a pond, and it will have to be lined with sodium bentonite, because the water will seep right out of it. The well on our property is at 375' depth. My husband said Holy Moses, they fill themselves.
On another piece of property the water table is at 570'.

 

[Bruce]

I would worry about the second one because it has been on the market for 196 days. Why so long on the market?

And why so few pictures. And only 1 of the inside. If you have a house in decent shape you want at least 1 picture of each room. To me few inside pictures means "project house" and not even worth a look unless it is a spectacular price and you know going in you will likely need to gut and rebuild. That may not always be the case but anyone that is trying to sell a house needs to make people WANT to come look at it.

With regard to time, effort, expense of maintaining fields there can be another option besides haying and baling yourself. If the area is truly ag, there are likely people around you can hire to hay the fields for you. They will also likely have the local knowledge as to when it should be done because they have been doing it for years. Our 4-5 acres of pasture were let go to weeds by the prior owners so it is not worth haying at the moment but I have a guy up the road mow it once usually around July, he decides based on his schedule. He hays his own property and some up and down the road. I bought hay from him for the 2 alpacas we got in October. I would LIKE to bring my fields back and have them hayed. Don't like the idea of former ag land just being a giant weed bed.

 

[Reindeermama]

Exactly Bruce, that was why I was worried when LMK17 was considering this piece. I have looked at more than my fair share of properties, and when they only have pictures of the outside that is always a red flag. Another thing that worried me was it had been sold I think 4 or 5 times since 2003. That is also one of those red flags.

When we sold our investment property, it was pictures, pictures, and more pictures. We just sold 2 investment properties so we could afford our dream farm. It took less than 3 weeks on the market to sell them both. Pictures Galore by our real estate agent. lol, she split the it into three listings, one with the cabin, and one without improvements, and then one with the cabin and 11 acres. That way if someone couldn't afford the cabin and 11 acres, they might could the cabin and 5.5 acres. Then the other 5.5 acres was sold as unimproved land.

One of our pastures is native grasses. One is coastal hay. Usually here you have someone cut your hay and bale it, and they take some many bales in exchange. I don't know how it works elsewhere. In our county in Texas, I don't know about all of them, you have to have 20 acres to get an ag exemption for taxes.
I am lucky my other brother-in-law is a agriculture professor at A & M University at College Station, and my other brother-in-law works in Austin for TNRCC(water-Texas Natural Resource Conservation). They are very sweet to me when I call with a question. Our land is divided into 3 pastures. I am still learning, and asking lots of questions. My husband knows a lot already, since his Grandpa had a 100 acre ranch, and he spent his summers up there.

 

[Bruce]

Great @Reindeermama, now we all know who to ask questions of! You don't have to tell the BILs that they aren't YOUR questions

 

[LMK17]

Thanks again, everyone!

Haymaking does sound like potentially more trouble than it's worth! I've been researching rotational grazing and pasture management, and one practice that has caught my eye is stockpiling forage for use when the grass isn't growing, instead of feeding cut hay. Anyone around here familiar with doing that?

I do feel a bit better now about managing acres of land, though! In looking at @misfitmorgan 's description of maintaining and improving pastures, I realized that's essentially what I've been doing for years with my yard, only on a larger scale! I'm already quite familiar with cutting the grass high and improving the soils over time. In fact, not that it's going to go too far on a multiacre place, but I've been planning all along to pack up my finished compost and compost pile and cart them to our new farm! LOL

Let's assume I have 6 head of cattle (maybe 5 stockers + 1 family milk cow) and a couple large donkeys. Any ballpark estimates how much hay I would need to feed them for the winter? We do have mild winters, of course, and if I seeded in some cool season grasses, I could probably have grass growing nearly year-round.

Okay, let me clarify Misfitmorgan. I am not talking about stock tanks like you are talking about stock tanks. To me, stock tanks are ponds.

Regardless, when you buy a property with a well you need to have the water tested, have a foundation inspection, termite inspection, plumbing static test, and a good house inspection. Water tests are necessary because there can be arsenic, bacteria, and the salinity level needs to be taken in consideration. These can all be corrected with the right filters. This is for the well water you will be drinking and using to take baths in. My brother-in-law works in Austin at the TNRCC. That is why I know about water quality issues. On wells, it is usually $15. or $20. a foot to drill a well. The first one is on community water for the house, so you don't have to worry about a water quality test. Stock ponds usually cost $10,000 plus.

LOL About the stock pond vs tank! The TX ranching jargon threw me for a loop for a little while, too. First, our friends who ranch talked about a stock tank on their property, and I was surprised to see that it was what I would call a pond. Then I heard about stock tanks being sold at stores for like $50, and you can imagine how confusing that was to me! LOL After awhile, I settled on calling things "stock tanks" (a big water bucket, basically) and "stock ponds." If it's just a surface water feature and not used for watering livestock, then I just call it a pond. Ha!

Speaking of ponds, I've kinda added them to my list of really want to haves on our new place. Not only do I like the idea of having extra water for the animals, but I have a vision of stocking the pond with fish and adding some ducks and geese, too. Can you imagine how much fun the kids would have with that! The majority of the houses we've seen have community water, and the well/pond is only for animals and irrigation. Still, I would probably want to have the wells tested, right? I mean, if there is arsenic in the water, I probably don't want the cattle drinking from it! And it the salinity is high, I don't want to irrigate with that. Whom should I contact about testing the wells, when the time comes? Is that something the local Ag Extension would do?

Misfitmorgan, actually that second one at one time may have been a pig farm. lol So, it is very possible it could have been a manure lagoon. Here we test for everything. Foundation problems are big problem. Termites are too. The home inspectors here will tell you if they think you might have a plumbing or termite problem, but will not guarantee their inspection for these problems. So most people call in specialized inspectors. We test well water here, because there are problem areas in certain counties. For example, one place we bought has arsenic and high salinity. All taken care of with proper filtering. Also, we can have rotten egg smelling water wells from sulfur in the water table. A lot of the stock ponds have to be lined if the pond is put in an area with sandy soil, because it won't hold otherwise. Didn't mean to sound mean. lol One county has radionuclides in the water table from uranium mining that took place in the 1950's.

Where did you see that it might've been a pig farm? I've seen the county tax sites (and those are nice!), but I haven't seen much about any property that really indicated what it might've been used for in the past.

Since we're on the topic of ponds, what if the pond on a property is a manure lagoon? Can it be treated and restored to "stock pond" status? Would it be TNRCC who could help with restoring old ponds?

We have a great home inspector, and we've been testing for everything, too. We actually offered on a place back in Feb, and we dropped the offer once our inspector found a slew of issues with it. That house was a '78. I feel kinda burned by that one, and it makes me hesitant to seriously consider the 1970 house on that one property I posted. The land does look really nice, though...

Something we never got around to doing with the property that fell through is any sort of ecological testing of the soil, though for a farm, I feel it would be important to know if there is anything "off" lurking in the soil! Should we consider some sort of soil tests? And whom would we hire for that?

Heh. The longer we look at properties, the more questions I think of! Maybe it's a good thing that the search is taking us a little while!

 

[LMK17]

And why so few pictures. And only 1 of the inside. If you have a house in decent shape you want at least 1 picture of each room. To me few inside pictures means "project house"...

With regard to time, effort, expense of maintaining fields there can be another option besides haying and baling yourself. If the area is truly ag, there are likely people around you can hire to hay the fields for you. They will also likely have the local knowledge as to when it should be done because they have been doing it for years. Our 4-5 acres of pasture were let go to weeds by the prior owners so it is not worth haying at the moment but I have a guy up the road mow it once usually around July, he decides based on his schedule. He hays his own property and some up and down the road. I bought hay from him for the 2 alpacas we got in October. I would LIKE to bring my fields back and have them hayed. Don't like the idea of former ag land just being a giant weed bed.

Exactly Bruce, that was why I was worried when LMK17 was considering this piece. I have looked at more than my fair share of properties, and when they only have pictures of the outside that is always a red flag. Another thing that worried me was it had been sold I think 4 or 5 times since 2003. That is also one of those red flags.

I am lucky my other brother-in-law is a agriculture professor at A & M University at College Station, and my other brother-in-law works in Austin for TNRCC(water-Texas Natural Resource Conservation). They are very sweet to me when I call with a question. Our land is divided into 3 pastures. I am still learning, and asking lots of questions. My husband knows a lot already, since his Grandpa had a 100 acre ranch, and he spent his summers up there.

LOL! Give me some credit, y'all! I might have a lot of questions about buying a farm, but I wasn't born yesterday.

So, just to clarify, I was considering the property with the mobile home for about 10 seconds. Right after I posted about it, I called the owner up. So I have known that it's a mobile (and also has some issues not obvious in the listing, which the owner was kind/honest enough to discuss with me) for a couple days now. Still, what I posted was true-- Both that one and the 1970 stone house/property have some features I'm interested in, and I am curious about how to compare one property to another. So the discussion of which one other folks would choose and all is very relevant from an "academic" standpoint.

I also know to be leery of anything with few photos, or of places that have been on the market foorreevver or have been bought and sold over and over. Plus, we do have a good real estate agent we've been working with for the past couple months. But thank you all for your concern!

@Reindeermama How great for you to have your BILs working in such relevant fields! You've got an in! I'm jealous.

Good idea about hiring someone to cut the hay. Seems to me I'll do well to make friends with as many of the neighbors as possible!

Anyone here cut hay by hand? I mean just a small hayfield, of course. Maybe 1 acre or so.

 

[Baymule]

I have 3 horses and they go through a BIG round bale about every 2-3 weeks. I have 5 ewes, 1 ram and a few lambs and they go through 1 round bale a month. Maybe that will help you figure how much hay you would need with cows. You can plant winter rye grass in the fall and have good winter pasture, but still give access to free choice hay.