I hate cheaters!!

[swiss.susan]

LOl well i can also post our local fair rules, just didn't have them handy. We do follow the state fair rules in that regard, all dairy steers must be 100% dairy blood. I have never shown or been involved in the beef barn so I don't know if they allow dairy/beef crosses in thier crossbred show, but if they did I don't know why someone would want to compete against beef breeds with a cross dairy breed. I really don' t know what Illinois does, but I do know that in our little barn, bringing a maine/holstein cross is cheating and breaking the rules. It sends a bad message to the 4-Hers and creates bad feelings all around.

It did fly today and was the CH feeder steer. Like I stated in my original post, I wasn't being a bad sport or a sore loser, all we brought were fats. On a brighter note, my son had the CH Brown Swiss and the overall GCH dairy steer today

I don't understand why you are so quick to prove me wrong. You have no idea what is acceptable in our county, but I live here, did my 10 years plus i'm on an additional 12 with my children. I was the barn superintendent and club leader. I DO know what is acceptable in our county. I understand if you are trying to point out simply that other counties have other rules, that I concede to, but it seems as though you have jumped up on a soapbox and are desperate for me to understand what is or isn't cheating. At my county fair...lol. Either way, I still hate cheating.

 

[Symphony]

At our state fair a few years back someone tried to cheat but they were caught. We use nose prints now.

 

[kfacres]

LOl well i can also post our local fair rules, just didn't have them handy. We do follow the state fair rules in that regard, all dairy steers must be 100% dairy blood. I have never shown or been involved in the beef barn so I don't know if they allow dairy/beef crosses in thier crossbred show, but if they did I don't know why someone would want to compete against beef breeds with a cross dairy breed. I really don' t know what Illinois does, but I do know that in our little barn, bringing a maine/holstein cross is cheating and breaking the rules. It sends a bad message to the 4-Hers and creates bad feelings all around.

It did fly today and was the CH feeder steer. Like I stated in my original post, I wasn't being a bad sport or a sore loser, all we brought were fats. On a brighter note, my son had the CH Brown Swiss and the overall GCH dairy steer today

I don't understand why you are so quick to prove me wrong. You have no idea what is acceptable in our county, but I live here, did my 10 years plus i'm on an additional 12 with my children. I was the barn superintendent and club leader. I DO know what is acceptable in our county. I understand if you are trying to point out simply that other counties have other rules, that I concede to, but it seems as though you have jumped up on a soapbox and are desperate for me to understand what is or isn't cheating. At my county fair...lol. Either way, I still hate cheating.

just pointing out that not all counties are the same, not all counties fall the same rules, most counties don't even have 'written' rules.

Seems to me this person won what they were after- champion feeder steer today.. Either you'll change the rules for them next year, or they'll be back with champion fat steer.

I can't say that I would blame them, if it's not in the rule book- how can you enforce it.

Can you post a picture of this cheater calf? I'm thinking it must be interested to get you all worked up.

On a side note, i was actually a 'real' 4H member for 11 years. My DOB is Sept- and when I joined you had to be 8 by Jan 1-- which I was.. then in the middle of my time in 4H they changed the rule to 18 by Sept 1.. which I was not... landed me an extra year of eligibility-- which only worked for a year or two on either side of my age.

 

[redtailgal]

It's like that in our county fair......dairy class must be 100% dairy breed. It's considered cheating to breed beef blood into the diary line because it's added weight onto that steer. They would have been disqualified if they'd been caught here, and if there was any doubt to the dairy-ness of the steer in question, they simply wouldnt have placed at all.

I dont show, not interested in it, but I've helped with a few shows, it's considered VERY poor sportsmanship to try to do that, and those that try usually only try once. It really is just bad sportmanship. Anything that goes against the rules is cheating, esp if it offers an unfair advantage over those who have followed the rules and put forth the effort to win appropriately.

I dont blame you one bit for being irritated.

 

[kfacres]

It's like that in our county fair......dairy class must be 100% dairy breed. It's considered cheating to breed beef blood into the diary line because it's added weight onto that steer. They would have been disqualified if they'd been caught here, and if there was any doubt to the dairy-ness of the steer in question, they simply wouldnt have placed at all.

I dont show, not interested in it, but I've helped with a few shows, it's considered VERY poor sportsmanship to try to do that, and those that try usually only try once. It really is just bad sportmanship. Anything that goes against the rules is cheating, esp if it offers an unfair advantage over those who have followed the rules and put forth the effort to win appropriately.

I dont blame you one bit for being irritated.

what if it's NOT in the rule book that the steer must be 100% dairy.

Kinda like it doesn't say in the rule book that you must enter the show ring with a halter on your animal. It's just a logical method.. However, one year in 4H, I 'led' a jersey heifer into the showmanship ring with nothing on but her birthday suit.. needless to say, i got quite the look with no halter on.

Are you saying, I was cheating? If it does not say you can or cannot have this or that-- again, it's not breaking the rule.

One more question to the BOLDED part above-- do people not show feeder and market animals based on weight? If the Holstein/ Maine cross weights 725, should be not fall into the same class as one who weighs 730?

Let's see how good you rule enforcers are. Pick out the dairy influenced, straight dairy, and straight beef bred animals.

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we'll see how you do on this one before I post the next round of pics...

 

[Royd Wood]

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[redtailgal]

I guess each county has different rules, but around here if someone were to intentionally walk into the arena with an unrestrained animal, they and their animal would be promptly removed and probably not invited back. We would consider that a pretty serious safety violation.

It does state clearly that animals must be restrained at all times, as well as the restrictions on what is show-able in each class. Most of the 4-h k folks are further limited because sportsmanship is a MAJOR issue with our local 4h groups.

As for your pics, I am not a judge and never claimed to be, so I see no point in trying to do anything with it.

We just have differing opinions, and that's ok. I do agree with the OP. Even if something is not written out in plain black and white, there are just some things that display poor sportsmanship.

 

[kfacres]

My point of taking a heifer in the ring without a halter on-- was to prove I had worked with my animals- and could control them-- even without a halter. i won showmanship, but then again, i was the only kid in my age break.

Here's more picture, that didn't get attached to the last one.

The point of the pictures, is that you cannot tell me which one is pure dairy, pure beef, and half n half. Nobody but me knows that, and so to describable against someone for thinking, or knowing you what you do.. Is crazy talk. Doesn't matter if you are a judge or not-- b/c you are judging someone for having a non- dairy, or partial dairy animal in a dairy class. I'm simplify asking you to pick from these pictures, which animal belongs and which does not. Visually, it is nearly impossible to tell.

Matter of fact, I have sold some very competitive club calves- that were 1/4 dairy... and have some recip cows on the place that are half.

You seem to want to talk about enforcing the rules, but nobody has posted their direct rules yet that clearly state that non- 100 percent dairy animals are not allowed in the dairy division.

case in point.

 

[HankTheTank]

Even if something is not written out in plain black and white, there are just some things that display poor sportsmanship.

kfacres- ^^That is the point of this. Some things should go without saying..
I am not a cow expert by any means, but I think it would be wrong to show an animal that wasn't technically dairy, in a dairy class.

 

[swiss.susan]

If you have a holstein with all 4 feet black, you can just about bet there it isn't 100% dairy. And it IS in the rule book. Putnam County 4-H fairbook, all dairy steers must be 100% dairly blood.

If I breed a swiss heifer to an angus, there are dead giveaway's on the calf to tell of it. They are always, always born with some white on the underside of the belly, usually under the arm. So you can tell crosses if you know what to look for.

If you google putnam county Indiana 4-H fair handbook you can find on page 33 where it is written that all steers must be 100% dairy blood.

I am also not an expert by any means but when something jumps out at you...lol well that doesn't take an expert.