I might finally be getting a milk cow!!!!

[WindyIndy]

Who is that new creature?!

 

[WindyIndy]

And here's her stool

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Yikes. (But love the rest of the pictures!) What are you giving her right now? May need to up the hay and reduce the supplement, just to start.

Also, can you send a picture of the supplement you're giving her? I've a feeling it might be too fine for her. I know I don't want to complicate things for you, but when she's getting finely-ground feed, that will be too easy for her to digest and cause her to be shooting real loose! Again, more hay, less supplement I think may help. Deworming may also be needed...

 

[WindyIndy]

I'm glad you liked the pics! I'm giving her a non medicated 16% calf feed that I got from the feed mill. I feed her 1lb in the morning and 1 at night. I'm also mixing this with a little big of the 12% yet as I wasn't wanting to jump from feed to feed. It's about 3/4 quarts of the 16% and 1/4 of the 12%. I thought about worms too, I work at the vet tomorrow so was going to bring in a fecal sample and have it tested.

I noticed today that my mini horse isn't letting Luna by the hay, water, or mineral either. Probably means she's not allowed in the shelter and is sleeping outside too. I'm wondering if I shouldn't winter my mini with the sheep, though I don't know if my LGD Maggie would like that too much. I might just have to decide between her and Luna

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Try cutting the supplement back to 0.5 lb twice a day for a few days to see how that works. Her poop needs to be not so loose like that you showed, but loose enough that it makes a nice pat that has some shape to it. (Just FYI and DIK: If it gets hard and rounded, then the protein needs to be upped; you don't need to worry about that though.)

Horses are going to be bossy, I'm not surprised to hear this. When horses outnumber a beast that is obviously non-equine, they get ousted pretty bad. And horses can be mean to those outcasts too, as you're seeing already. So Luna might be better off with the sheep, as her and the goats can take similar mineral, plus they'll get along better. And you don't know if Maggie's going to accept her as part of the herd until you try, you can only hope, right? Besides, Luna looks to be about the same size as the sheep, so I don't see how Maggie won't accept her as part of the herd, IMPO.

ETA: Feed looks good, BTW.

 

[WindyIndy]

I will try that, thanks. And if Annie is keeping her away that means she isn't getting any hay either. She's eating what little grass is left

Indy isn't really being mean to her, mostly Annie. She even bossed our HUGE beef steers when we had them. I was thinking Annie with the sheep. Do you think the ram would bother Luna? And then when Luna is bigger she can go back in with the horses? I won't be able to put any copper mineral down for her, maybe her grain will have enough? Maybe I could walk Luna around for awhile in their pen and see how they react? Should I give it a couple more days with the horses and see how it goes? Animals have to complicate everything don't they

Thanks, I'm glad it looks good!

 

[farmerjan]

I honestly question putting Luna in with the horses at all until she is an adult and then from the sounds of it the mini will still be a problem. The looseness is most likely caused from a lack of hay/bulk in her diet and the grain is going through her quicker and the molasses is making it more runny. I think trying her with the sheep as they are more her size.
She is too young to have anything restricting her diet especially hay and with the colder weather coming on. I used to have some horses, and there was always one that had to have an attitude towards the couple of cows. They got fenced separately because I did not want to deal with a horse with an attitude when all the cows were doing was trying to eat some hay, or drink from the water trough. If even the mini takes a notion and kicks her, Luna could wind up with a broken leg. She looks too calm and sweet natured and probably wouldn't know what was coming until it was too late. We have some boss cows but when they get full then the others can go get hay. Horses will just be bullies and will run an animal off even when they aren't interested in eating; just cuz they can.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

I will try that, thanks. And if Annie is keeping her away that means she isn't getting any hay either. She's eating what little grass is left

Indy isn't really being mean to her, mostly Annie. She even bossed our HUGE beef steers when we had them. I was thinking Annie with the sheep. Do you think the ram would bother Luna? And then when Luna is bigger she can go back in with the horses? I won't be able to put any copper mineral down for her, maybe her grain will have enough? Maybe I could walk Luna around for awhile in their pen and see how they react? Should I give it a couple more days with the horses and see how it goes? Animals have to complicate everything don't they

Thanks, I'm glad it looks good!

Luna's a head-bunter like the ram, she'll be able to take of herself with the sheep herd. It's not all that uncommon to have cattle with sheep, especially given the chance for them to get used to each other. But I would definitely not put her back with the horses when she's bigger. Jan's right, horses are just plain mean, even if it doesn't seem like it, and will continue to be mean even when Luna's gotten more mature and bigger. A couple more days with them won't change anything, sorry to say. She needs to be put somewhere else ASAP; some how I think the horses may be the other reason she's getting runny, one because she's eating too much grain and not getting enough hay (horses are to blame), and because of the stress they're putting on her.

You'll have to figure something out with the copper. You may have to have a copper bolus put in her once a year (or per the vet's recommendations) so that she gets the copper she needs without you having to compromise the health of the sheep with potential copper toxicity problems. Or, set up a small pen where you can put her in and only allow her in there and feed her the mineral that way. No way the grain will have enough. I believe either option will work, but it depends on what you're willing to work with. The bolus is less work for you for sure, I'll tell you that much!

 

[farmerjan]

The only problem with Luna in with the ram is if he gets too aggressive as he is mature and she is not. She might butt heads a bit but if he gets the best of her it might make her shy away from him and he could get to be a bully. Then again, being a different "species" he might just be wary enough to leave her alone, not knowing what she "could do"
We are running our younger Dall rams with our big bulls....about 20 younger rams in with anywhere from 4-10 full size breeding bulls. They totally ignore each other. The rams are about 1-2 yrs old. And contrary to all the advise and all the research and all the info on mineral for sheep, we have found that our sheep are doing better than they ever did having access to the cattle mineral. OH HORRORS....So as we are "doing it wrong" I will not advise you about the whole copper thing with the sheep vs the heifer. One thing I do find, there may be more to it than just the copper content, as we are now using mineral that has kelp in it and they seem to be benefiting from that....sometimes I think we "customize" things to such extremes that we are missing the point of the animals ability to seek out what they individually need.
My personal vitamin and mineral needs can be very different from another woman of my exact age, height and weight. We can't feed for each individual animals' need in a herd of 10 or 50 so you try for an average. I think that putting a handful of cattle mineral in Luna's feed bucket once a week or so will help to take care of what copper she may be needing. Put it in the bottom of the feed bucket, her feed on top, and she will eat some/leave some and it will get ingested . When she gets done eating her feed, put the bucket up so no one else gets into it, and then it will be like custom feeding her mineral, without the sheep getting into it.

 

[WindyIndy]

I ended up moving Luna to the sheep pen. They ignored her the first few days, even running away from her. They don't run as much but they don't seem to be bothering her to much either, granted I'm not out there as much since it's colder. I had the ram tied up and she was the one to walk over and start rubbing all over him and headbutt him I'm still watching Maggie as she growled at Luna a little. Maggie was drinking and Luna came up behind her.

Luna still has the runs BAD too. I cleaned her tail and by morning it was completely covered again. I haven't been able to worm her yet because I realized I didn't have anymore syringes, the soonest I can get one is either Tuesday unless farm fleet would have some then I could get one tomorrow. I never did get a fecal but the vet said to us ivermec. I have the kind you use SubQ, or the vet said you can give orally too. It's clear liquid, the dosage is 1cc for ever 110 pounds. Should I give her 2cc's? I also did drop her grain down to half a pound twice daily, and she has free choice hay,water, a salt block, and loose mineral.