I might finally be getting a milk cow!!!!

[WindyIndy]

If your local feed mill will do 500 lb batches you are lucky. We can do 1000 lb on mineral, and 2000lb (1 ton) on feed. But we get 2-4 tons of feed at a time to put in the feed bins as we have alot of animals and it saves having to handle smaller amounts in bags. In the colder months it also "keeps" so it is not a problem. The 17% we get is multi-purpose, we use it for the cattle & the sheep. I always used to feed a 16% sweet feed when I only had my horse and she liked it fine. If you want to mix a little corn in, so she will eat it better that won't hurt, it will decrease the protein a little bit but eating is better than not eating. Let's face it, no matter how good it is for them, if they don't eat it it's not doing them any good at all....The farm fleet sounds similiar to what I fed years ago. As far as I am aware, the lasalocid (bovatec) and rumensin (monensin) that are coccidiostats will be under the Veterinary feed directive list of drugs that will be by script. So, the medicated feed from the local feed store should be changed.
One thing to think about; chickens carry cocci and can infect cattle. Calves are especially suseptible so be careful of how much contact the calf has in confined quarters. It doesn't seem to be as big a deal out in the open pastures, but can be a problem in the barn if she is in close contact with bedding etc that the chickens can scratch through and subsequently poop in and it gets mixed in. Had some calves get coccidiosis that we blamed on having turkeys and meat birds in that stall as overnight confinement 2 years before; they free ranged during the day. Can't guarantee that was it...but have to watch it now even though it has been 4 + years. Can't "sterilize the stall" very well so I am careful to watch for blood in the calves manure.

Wow, that's a lot! I am glad they only do 500lbs then. I did the math and I guess that would only be 10 bags of 50lbs, I guess I may go though that before shes a year, I was thinking it was more feed then that. I guess I'll call and see how much it is, it might actually save me money since the sweet feed is $12.49 and the 12% is $10.00, so I would need to be buying those both. It'll be $22.49 for the two, lets say I would need 25 bags of each to make the 500lbs. That cost would be $562.25....wow!! That's a whole lot more then I thought! Hopefully I can get it cheaper thought the feed store. I want what's best for her, but I also need to budget.

I'll see if Luna ate her feed over night before deciding if I should mix some corn in it.
And if I do make a custom mix, I'll ask for the 15% protein, but is there any other percentages I should specifically ask for? I could also ask for some extra molasses too so she'll eat it, since I'll be portioning it out I would have to worry about it being too sweet and her gorging on it.

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. The chickens can get to her where she is, but they're too scared I'm thinking about letting her out into the big pasture with the horses this weekend. She seems to be doing really well about trusting me. And she doesn't share the same bedding, we use shavings for the chickens and I'm using hay for Luna until I can get her straw. The farmer I'm getting it from hasn't contacted me yet about when he can bring it over.

 

[farmerjan]

Hey Jan, this has been discussed on here in a number of other places and I can't point right to them directly, but I believe the VFD requirement is for antibiotics only, and only those antibiotics that are dual purpose and can/are used with/for humans. That will NOT include coccidiostats as part of the vet required prescription.

According to our feed mill, you are right in that they will not be included in the required VFD. It is when they are a part of a mix with something like oxytet or aureomycin that they will require it. I knew that I'd seen them on the list, didn't remember that it was in the mix produced by some companies. Since we had that disaster with losing those cows this spring, and the one vet saying that we should feed the mineral with rumensin, I got to thinking that I was going to need him to write a script for it. I am not that big a fan of ionophores but if that's what it takes to be able to use that pasture and never have the financial disaster, as well as the heartbreak, of losing cattle again, then that's what we will do. We finally just moved some animals there again, after making sure they all got blackleg shots, and after we have had some light frost which will take care of the lush growth that seemed to be part of the cause. We never got to pastures 4 and 5, and 3 was only grazed for a week so we will have grazing until real cold weather. It was never diagnosed definitely as blackleg, or ABPE or anything else. Everything was inconclusive....over $1,000 vet bill and 12 dead cows later and we are still not sure...lost 3 of the 12 calves too after we had moved them home. One good thing, we did save the bull, and the other 4 cows and calves and they seem to have recovered. They got resigned to having to go through the chute every 3 days for nearly 3 weeks for shots. The bull used to be a little aggressive, not mean, just very active but this has slowed him down to where he is very laid back. Haven't pregnancy checked them yet but I would be surprised if they are. They will get a second chance if they are open. The bull will definitely have to have a fertility test before we use him again. He'll go out of rotation this fall as we have enough other bulls to not have to use him. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. Have had a couple cows shot over the years during hunting season, but this was heartbreaking. They officially died from lightning since there had been several severe storms right at the same time and two were looking like it, but no one was positive what it was.

 

[farmerjan]

Wow, that's a lot! I am glad they only do 500lbs then. I did the math and I guess that would only be 10 bags of 50lbs, I guess I may go though that before shes a year, I was thinking it was more feed then that. I guess I'll call and see how much it is, it might actually save me money since the sweet feed is $12.49 and the 12% is $10.00, so I would need to be buying those both. It'll be $22.49 for the two, lets say I would need 25 bags of each to make the 500lbs. That cost would be $562.25....wow!! That's a whole lot more then I thought! Hopefully I can get it cheaper thought the feed store. I want what's best for her, but I also need to budget.

I'll see if Luna ate her feed over night before deciding if I should mix some corn in it.
And if I do make a custom mix, I'll ask for the 15% protein, but is there any other percentages I should specifically ask for? I could also ask for some extra molasses too so she'll eat it, since I'll be portioning it out I would have to worry about it being too sweet and her gorging on
Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. The chickens can get to her where she is, but they're too scared I'm thinking about letting her out into the big pasture with the horses this weekend. She seems to be doing really well about trusting me. And she doesn't share the same bedding, we use shavings for the chickens and I'm using hay for Luna until I can get her straw. The farmer I'm getting it from hasn't contacted me yet about when he can bring it over.

Don't panic over the coccidiosis, I just wanted you to be aware of it. It doesn't usually affect older animals, mostly just baby calves. Since I had calves in the pen where the turkeys had been, even a couple years later, it showed up and I had to treat it, so it got me to thinking that you should know about it. Since she is weaned and eating, it probably will not be of any concern. Shavings is fine for her bedding too, or straw.
I would tell the feed mill you want a calf grower type ration, 15-16% protein. They can probably do an all pellet or a textured feed and most textured feeds have some molasses. Don't get extra molasses as it gets like a brick in the winter. In fact our feed mill uses a molasses and soybean oil mix for the winter feed formulations that get delivered in bulk like we get, so that it will flow enough to come out of the feed bin hopper door at the bottom of the bin. If she is eating the pellets she will be fine, but if she seems to like the sweet feed then I'd go with that. Our 17% is an all pellet feed and the animals like getting feed so they don't quibble over what they get.

It doesn't seem like so much when you only buy one or two bags at a time, but it's not cheap to raise a calf through 2-2 1/2 years to calving. Just for a reference, most dairy farmers, that have bulk feed rates and all their feed in quantity, figure that it costs a minimum of 1500 to 2000 to get a heifer from birth to calving. Granted that's a holstein, and bigger than Luna...but we figure it costs us over 1200 to get a heifer to calve into our beef herd. We figure, counting the value of pasture, an average of $400 per year to keep a beef cow. That's over 1.10 a day. And a growing heifer costs a bit more as she is growing and we do feed a bit more grain once they are weaned to make sure they grow and don't just exist. That's on good years where there is sufficient pasture, not droughts. And that's figuring on "quantity" since we make our own hay and we don't exactly "pay ourselves" wages for the work, even though we do have to pay any help we hire. We run alot of cows, and make in the neighborhood of 3000 5x6 round bales of hay and about 2000 small square bales which we sell alot of them. We will have plenty of hay this year, but like to have a couple hundred to carry over in case the next year is dry.

With the sharp drop in prices of feeder cattle this year, from the difference in the spring sales to the fall sales, we will lose a third of the income. There's no making that up; and prices are forecast to stay down for the next several years. We are holding over about 50 of the heifers til after the first of the year to see if there is anything to the suggestion that there will be an uptick in prices. But there are alot of farmers talking doing the same....If nothing else they will be a bit heavier so more pounds to sell.

 

[Bossroo]

Wow, that's a lot! I am glad they only do 500lbs then. I did the math and I guess that would only be 10 bags of 50lbs, I guess I may go though that before shes a year, I was thinking it was more feed then that. I guess I'll call and see how much it is, it might actually save me money since the sweet feed is $12.49 and the 12% is $10.00, so I would need to be buying those both. It'll be $22.49 for the two, lets say I would need 25 bags of each to make the 500lbs. That cost would be $562.25....wow!! That's a whole lot more then I thought! Hopefully I can get it cheaper thought the feed store. I want what's best for her, but I also need to budget.

I'll see if Luna ate her feed over night before deciding if I should mix some corn in it.
And if I do make a custom mix, I'll ask for the 15% protein, but is there any other percentages I should specifically ask for? I could also ask for some extra molasses too so she'll eat it, since I'll be portioning it out I would have to worry about it being too sweet and her gorging on it.

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. The chickens can get to her where she is, but they're too scared I'm thinking about letting her out into the big pasture with the horses this weekend. She seems to be doing really well about trusting me. And she doesn't share the same bedding, we use shavings for the chickens and I'm using hay for Luna until I can get her straw. The farmer I'm getting it from hasn't contacted me yet about when he can bring it over.

When you want to buy the 500 # to get the cheaper rate you will most likely then not have to buy 500# of one type or the other but NOT 250# + 250# of each type. Just saying !

 

[farmerjan]

When you want to buy the 500 # to get the cheaper rate you will most likely then not have to buy 500# of one type or the other but NOT 250# + 250# of each type. Just saying !

I know what you mean, I think that "Windy" was thinking of buying the feed at the feed store and mixing half and half...Yeah the feed mill won't split a 500# batch half and half...Ours won't even do less that a ton at a time...

 

[WindyIndy]

I know what you mean, I think that "Windy" was thinking of buying the feed at the feed store and mixing half and half...Yeah the feed mill won't split a 500# batch half and half...Ours won't even do less that a ton at a time...

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks.

 

[WindyIndy]

I'm sorry for all the heartache you had Farmerjan I'm glad you found some answers though and things are going better for you.

I called our main feed store again and the 500lb in 14% protein would $70-75. I was talking with a nutritionalist there and she was saying that she thinks I should feed Luna 2-3lbs of feed a day and that the 16% from Farm Fleet should be fine, it'll just be a little more protein,. She said as much as she would love for me to buy feed from them, she thinks the 16% will be more economical for me. I guess the only way it would be is if I didn't need 500lbs before she's a year old. I can't remember if I posted this before, but we also bail our own plain grass hay, and I give her free choice of that. I thought maybe once she had her calf and was milking that I would buy her some alfalfa pellets and give her those while I milk her.

Oh, and Luna ate all her feed without any added corn

 

[farmerjan]

I'm sorry for all the heartache you had Farmerjan I'm glad you found some answers though and things are going better for you.

I called our main feed store again and the 500lb in 14% protein would $70-75. I was talking with a nutritionalist there and she was saying that she thinks I should feed Luna 2-3lbs of feed a day and that the 16% from Farm Fleet should be fine, it'll just be a little more protein,. She said as much as she would love for me to buy feed from them, she thinks the 16% will be more economical for me. I guess the only way it would be is if I didn't need 500lbs before she's a year old. I can't remember if I posted this before, but we also bail our own plain grass hay, and I give her free choice of that. I thought maybe once she had her calf and was milking that I would buy her some alfalfa pellets and give her those while I milk her.

Oh, and Luna ate all her feed without any added corn

There is no reason that they can't up their protein 2% to a 16% feed if they are mixing their own feed there. It's a simple matter of more dried distillers or soybean meal or whatever protein source they are using...Any nutritionist can do the math and up it. I am surprised that they didn't say that. And you can feed that feed to anyone at any time. But you need to pencil it out and do what is best. It just surprised me to read your post that she didn't say yes they could do it...Do they make a 20% feed??? you could get the 500 lbs of 14%,and a 50 lb bag of 20% and put a cupful of 20% in her feed daily and get it up to a 16% and still save money. Yes, keep hay in front of her as they seldom will overeat hay unless they are not getting a little grain. She'll eat what she wants & needs and will do fine. Once she gets big enough to breed, then calve, alfalfa pellets will do her good in the protein dept or some alfalfa hay while you are milking.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Yes they can and do overeat the salt and can/do get "loose" from it so don't panic as long as she is eating. Best thing is to use some loose salt/mineral , give her less than a handful a day until she seems to "get her fill". Or use just a red salt block, trace mineral, and put it out for her for a few hours a day until she no longer "wants" it

I've never heard of cattle having loose stool from over-consuming mineral or salt. I have, though, heard of loose stools when cattle have access to feed with protein content that is higher than what they need, from stress, or from feed that is ground too fine. So I doubt that the loose stool will be from the salt, and I wouldn't change the salt-mineral mix. She's more than likely eating lots now (or when you were asking) because she hasn't had this for a long time and is making up for what she was denied when she was younger. This is completely normal.

The lady I got her from said something about giving her a grain mix to help her stool. Would that make a difference? Could I just keep giving her corn instead? I only have whole corn so it takes longer to digest and stays in the system longer, but being Luna is a calf should I get her cracked? I gave her a little more corn this morning and she even licked some out of my hand!!

Unlike what's been said here, she's still at the age where she'll be chewing on the corn, not swallowing it whole. She is getting close to that age though, where she will start to be more gorging on the feed and the whole corn will no longer be chewed. Then she'll need to get cracked corn. Just watch her when she eats the grain. Does she take her time to chew the feed, or is she swallowing it whole without much chewing?

But no, the grain won't help all that much. If you want to solid up her stools, decrease the grain and increase the hay. Increasing cracked grain or even increasing grain will loosen up her stools.

Not surprising if you're feeding whole corn to the older steer that the chickens will peck through them. I'm just guessing but he's more than likely of the age where he's swallowing the grains whole and not bothering to chew them, like he would if he were younger. He needs cracked corn.

But as Jan said, corn alone, though high in energy, is deficient in protein. If you want to bring up protein levels, feed peas, soybean meal, canola meal, alfalfa pellets, corn gluten meal, etc. You will need to figure out what is available.

At her age, she needs between 14 and 16% protein. Go any higher and the protein will just come out as waste in her feces and urine into the soil.

I agree and disagree about the hay not being enough. It all depends on the quality of the hay, and that can only be determined if you sent off a feed test. Hay that is less than 10% protein will certainly not meet her needs, even if it's alfalfa hay. If it was higher, it will, but she will need supplementation for energy. The same goes for grass. They'll get "hay bellies" if the quality of the feed isn't there, and it acts more of a gut-filler than a nutritious source of feed. If your grass is high quality, like over 12% protein with a good balance of energy, then it may be decent feed, but with her breeding she may need a little extra TLC.

I would only recommend an ionophore if she's going to be on a higher-concentrate diet, such as corn silage with some peas and barley grain as not only a coccidiostat, but to combat a metabolic disorder known as acidosis or grain overload. I feel that with this diet an ionophore is completely optional. Since she's getting hay and pasture, it's not all that necessary.

Do you have access to any local producers selling peas or any type of legume, like faba beans or lentils or something similar? Ask around at the feed place. You can easily do your own mix with something like peas and cracked corn plus the mineral mix you're already giving her and be good to go that way without spending extra money on a supplement that doesn't offer much, except a little bit of energy and a bit of protein and a bit of gut-fill (from the modest ADF values on either tags).

Some things to think about.

BTW, congrats on the new addition!

 

[WindyIndy]

FarmerJan, I'm sorry, you must have miss understood my post, she only quoted me on the 14% because that was what I was asking for, if I wanted it up the protein the price would go up more. They can make what ever % I want. The lady just thought money wise it would be better for me to go with the Farm Fleet 16%.

WildRoseBeef, thank you for the congrats! My head is whirling with all the info, but I'm enjoying the learning. When we raised beef my daddy did all the research and buying because they were his steers, I just did the fun stuff and took care of them
I apologize to everyone for all my questions and back and forth, my brain is very slow to understand and process stuff.
Are you saying it would be cheaper to mix my own stuff? Should I go with the 500lb feed? I just worry about it going bad. I think she was saying it would be closer to $100 for a higher protein then 14%. I might be near farm fleet today so I could get some of the 16%. If I don't hear from anyone soon I may just buy a bag or two just to get my by while I figure it out. The store is 45 minutes away.
Help, too many choices!

Oh! And as far as Luna's stools go, they are completely normal now. They aren't thick, but not runny. They look like what I remember our beef's being Luna also doesn't swallow her feed, she chews/eats very slowly, like a lady,lol Our boys would just swallow it if I remember right (it's been a few years) they were at least a year old, maybe older.