Im at a loss, please help.

[elevan]

I would have the fecal redone (fully) as Roll Farms suggested. I would also dose her with Red Cell 6ml / 20-30# every 6-8 hours for 24-48 hours to help combat the anemia while you find out what you're dealing with and get started fighting it.

I have been really happy with the suggestions on here to use red cell and copper bolusing. some of my wormy goats seem to be doing a better job fighting off worms.


You said you did the iverectin and quest and then she lived until this week. What kind of time frame are we talking about, Just a week after you gave her the quest or 2 or 3 months later????

First, this was going to my spam folder, so Ive missed all your responses. Luckily, my brain was firing this morning and I thought to check it. Sorry for the delay.

2nd, the doe that passed was 3 and the doe that is sick now is 2. I have a yearling doe that has slight edema under her chin that I think is starting the process. I hit her with Ivermectin this morning and dusted her in case lice are back.

For the doe that died, she was pregnant, so I was using Safeguard at 1ml/10lbs for 5 days. I also did Ivermection orally at 1ml/75lbs and for the others, I also used Valbazen at 4mls/100lbs over 3 days. The time frame was from April 15th til 6/21. She was SEVERELY anemic (PCV 8% initially, but increased to 12%). We found lice on her, too, so I dusted her, the bedding, and everyone else with 7dust. The doe that is currently sick is definitely weak in the rear. Definitely. We made slings this morning and tried to exercise her and she is using the front but knuckling over in the rear. Stools are normal consistency. My vet said to give her a Vit B complex injection to try and give her a boost, and I gave her the quest (1ml/100lbs was the dose I was able to find) about 5 days ago. She is eating and drinking still. She is grazing in the grass when we put her out in the pasture. Its insane and frustrating. Im scared to death they are all going to die.

Regarding the red cell, my large animal vet that I consulted said that with severe anemia, there isnt much point in the red cell since its utilizing iron, and iron is carried on the red blood cells. Without red blood cells, the iron is useless. Have you guys had severe anemia show results? Today I noticed that she has a snotty nose on one side.

I work in an ER vet hosp, Im a registered vet tech... except I work with small animals. I apologize if this is a choppy delivery of answers but I just got home and havent had any sleep.

Tell me what kind of fecal to do and I can do it. I work at 6 tonight, so Im all ears beforehand Thanks guys for all your condolences and advice. Im really trying to do the best thing for them! - Kerri

I dose Ivermectin at 1ml/25# orally...so your dose was way low on that imo.

I've had great success with Red Cell and severe anemia. Which is why I recommend it to everyone whose goats are experiencing anemia of any severity.

Coccidia is still not out of the question with your goats. When I take fecals in and have them check for coccidia it takes them an extra 15 minutes to do that test...I don't know what extra it entails, hopefully someone else can chime in with that.

Since you're "technically" doing your own fecals at your office, I would take a couple different samples...same goat, different poos. You can get negative results on one and positive on another...I'm sure you already know that though.

When you say "slight edema under her chin" what are you saying exactly? Starting to look like bottle jaw or just a lump? Can you run a blood test to check the levels of selenium and copper?

I'm working on 4 hours of sleep...that's all I can think of for now...

 

[ksalvagno]

Rear weakness can be a sign for Meningeal Worm. The worm travels through the spinal cord and into the brain and will eventually kill them. Prevention is Ivomec. Treatment is Safeguard (liquid) dosed at 1cc per 7 lbs for 5 days. Also give Ivomec by injection. Banamine is also helpful. The only way to prove meningeal worm is by spinal tap so most people don't actually have them tested to prove they had it. Necropsy will also show if they had meningeal or not.

 

[20kidsonhill]

We saved a severly anemic doe this spring. We feel she had what is called a flash kill from worming her, which resulted in her almost bleeding out from too many worms dying off too fast. she was not weak in the back like you are distribing. I suspect you are dealing with meningeal worms. But to answer your question about the red cell. We used it at the rate of 6cc per 30lb of goat daily for a week, But on day 3 we felt she was so bled out looking we started injecting her with injectable iron for pigs as well(ferrous), along with giving her the red cell. She was so severly bottle jawed that she could not eat for a couple days. we did B complex 3x a day,

We switched her to grain and alfalfa, all that she would eat, daily probiotics and When she was at her worse, High protein drenches, made with raw eggs, corn oil, corn syrup, and yogurt(not the light). (8 to 10 ounces at a time). Her bottle jaw went away after a week, only to return when we left her out on pasture a couple weeks later, so we kept up the iron shots weekly for the next few weeks, until we felt her color looked better.


Protein is the key to red blood cell development, so providing lots of protein is important in their recovery.

I would make sure you are checking for coccidiosis.

I would consider treating aggresively for meningeal worms.

I would consider trying to treat a couple for coccidios with sulfa-dimethoxine just to see if it helps at all and to rule it out, since that is one drug family you haven't used.

If you loose another one, I would have the body checked out by a vet.

Iwould talk to neighbors, sheep and goat farmers, find out what could be going on in your area. Although I would think the vet should now.

 

[Griffin's Ark]

I am going to give you a note about Ivermectin directly out of the book "Sheep and Goat Medicine" edited by D.G Pugh, DVM, MS.
"Anecdotal reports suggest that this dosage may be clinically ineffective in sheep and goats and more that 300 micrograms per Kilogram may be needed for nematode parasite control."

The initial dosage is 200 micrograms per kilogram PO or SC. Assuming the normal dose of injectable ivermectin for cattle is the base line, 1 ml per 110 lbs, this suggest to me that you need to add half again as much or more to be effective. We use it a double strength when things get to out of hand to use organic methods. Locally our vets are recommending transitioning to Cydectin to get heavy worm loads undercontrol and then go back to Ivermectin or Valbazen for as long as it is effective.

 

[Goatmasta]

I am going to give you a note about Ivermectin directly out of the book "Sheep and Goat Medicine" edited by D.G Pugh, DVM, MS.
"Anecdotal reports suggest that this dosage may be clinically ineffective in sheep and goats and more that 300 micrograms per Kilogram may be needed for nematode parasite control."

The initial dosage is 200 micrograms per kilogram PO or SC. Assuming the normal dose of injectable ivermectin for cattle is the base line, 1 ml per 110 lbs, this suggest to me that you need to add half again as much or more to be effective. We use it a double strength when things get to out of hand to use organic methods. Locally our vets are recommending transitioning to Cydectin to get heavy worm loads undercontrol and then go back to Ivermectin or Valbazen for as long as it is effective.

If you look at the pour on it suggest 500 Mcg / Kg, Personally I am dosing closer to 800 Mcg/Kg and it is very effective. As I have stated in other post the dosage for ALL ivermec (injectable or pour-on) should be 1cc/22lbs If you dose @ that rate you will deliver between 500-800 Mcg/Kg. Which is effective.
I am of the school that will use a wormer (increasing dosage as needed) until it becomes ineffective. At that point I will move on to a different wormer.

 

[kerrihornenc]

well, doe #2 is hanging in there, still down in the rear but bright alert, eating/drinking. doe #3 that had a slight amount of bottle jaw on Saturday got treated with Ivermectin (I doubled the dose, gave her 2mls/100lbs) and she was dead Monday morning. No wasting away on that. Im very over this, I can assure you. Based on what I was reading, I too think its meningial worm. If doe#2 dies, I will have her necropsied. Starting panacur on everyone tonight, moving to Valbazen by the weekend, then Ill dose everyone with Ivermectin again. Thats all Ive got. Started the down doe on red cell yesterday, and from what Ive read should do EOD, right? Thanks guys! <3

 

[helmstead]

I am SO sorry for your losses!! Hopefully the last one will recover...

 

[elevan]

I'm hoping for a good outcome for you on this doe

 

[rockdoveranch]

I am So sorry for your losses.

I am curious about Ivermectin percentages and dosing.

We use Ivermectin 1% solution injectable (for cattle) orally according the instructions for cattle which is 1cc per 110 pounds.

Recently we bought Ivermectin Sheep Drench 0.08% Solution. We have not used it yet, but the label says to use 3.0 mL (2.4 mg ivermectin) per 26 pounds of body weight.

In other words, for example, 1% ivermection solution = 1 mL ivermection in 100 mLs solution.

 

[Goatmasta]

I am So sorry for your losses.

I am curious about Ivermectin percentages and dosing.

We use Ivermectin 1% solution injectable (for cattle) orally according the instructions for cattle which is 1cc per 110 pounds.

Recently we bought Ivermectin Sheep Drench 0.08% Solution. We have not used it yet, but the label says to use 3.0 mL (2.4 mg ivermectin) per 26 pounds of body weight.

In other words, for example, 1% ivermection solution = 1 mL ivermection in 100 mLs solution.

The sheep drench dosage of 3ml/26lbs delivers 200mcg/kg of body weight. The injectable dosage of 1cc/110lbs delivers 200 mcg/kg of body weight. The pour on dosage of 1cc/22lbs delivers 500mcg/kg of body weight.
Personally I dose around 800 mcg/kg of body weight.