Is it normal for male ram sheep to violently headbutt the walls?

[babsbag]

@soarwitheagles I don't raise sheep, only goats, but my cool weather born kids grow much faster than my late sping/105° kids. I also don't have as much problem with coccidia with the Jan. kids. I am on a very dry lot so parasites aren't much of a problem for me, but you might very well find that your parasite problem is less in colder months as well. That being said, it may not get cold enough where you live to make a difference either, the parasites might just be there all year long.

 

[Blue Sky]

Head butting. I spray painted a face at ram's eye level on the stall getting hammered. He stopped but I'm not sure it wasn't coincidence.

 

[Bossroo]

I believe we have 15 ewes and 9 rams.



Bossroo,

Wow, I never realized that! Thank you for sharing your insights. To be honest with you, we were a little disappointed this year...for every lamb born, we had a ratio of 4:1. 4 ram lambs for every ewe lamb. That was kinda disappointing because we wanted all females for breeding purposes. I tried to sell the ram lambs during the Ramadan holiday [best prices here], but no one bought any due to being too small. Now I am hoping to let these ram lambs fatten up another 6 months, then sell around the Easter holiday.

As a side note, I have learned that raising American Blackbellies for meat is not very cost effective [I have invested well over $6000 in initial livestock purchases, hay, grain, fencing, gates, medicine, etc.]. The only income we have received is we traded 3 lambs for 50 hours of outside labor.

I hope to sell the entire flock next year for $4000. So this equates to a large business loss, especially when you include my own personal labor of over 500 hours.

My plan is to sell off the entire flock of American Blackbellies, then purchase 30-50 very young Dorpers at the local auction. The Dorpers achieve selling weight at 3-5 months, whereas the American Blackbellies require 18 months before reaching selling weight.

Wow, what a painful fiscal adventure and learning experience!

A couple things to consider. Since Federal and State income tax season is fast approaching, the sheep, fencing , gates , feeders, barns, and equipment can be depreciated over time. Hay, grain, medicine can be expenced. Since you now see that the Blcckbellies are not profitable. Find a very good CPA that specializes in farm/ livestock. Since you already made the decision to sell the unprofitable sheep,( you have no way of knowing IF you can sell them for $4,000 next year ) I would dump those Blackbellies at your earliest livestock sale asap to cut your losses. Then recontact the Dorper breeders that you talked to earlier and make an offer on this year's lamb crop. Better quality livestock will be more profitable than what you can get at the livestock sale. Good luck !

 

[Blue Sky]

Are there any horned hair breeds that can bring a little more meat than black bellies? I happen to have a good market for mine but would like to increase size and keep horns.

 

[Baymule]

I sure hope I do not sound mean, cold, cruel and greedy, but waiting 18 months for a sheep to obtain selling weight is simply way too long for us.

No, you sound like a sheep farmer who is trying to make sound business decisions.

Finally, after I become very rich from selling the fat Dorpers, perhaps I can move to the Bahama's, retire early, buy a hammock, and drink lots of coconut juice.

With Hurricane Matthew, the size of the state of Arizona, hanging out in the region, you might want to wait on that....

 

[soarwitheagles]

@soarwitheagles I don't raise sheep, only goats, but my cool weather born kids grow much faster than my late sping/105° kids. I also don't have as much problem with coccidia with the Jan. kids. I am on a very dry lot so parasites aren't much of a problem for me, but you might very well find that your parasite problem is less in colder months as well. That being said, it may not get cold enough where you live to make a difference either, the parasites might just be there all year long.

babs,

Yes, same here. Our 105 degree lambs are very small, and even lambs born after them have surpassed them in size and weight. I am beginning to think maybe they were "damaged" from the extreme heat. When I found them, they were 4-6 hours old, laying on the ground, unable to stand due to the extreme heat. I honestly thought I had lost them. Gave em' drench, water by hand, and removed them both from mama, placing them into a room used for cooling and storing meat. Then I hand fed them with the lamb milk. It took a number of days before they could manage on their own.

I am not sure about the parasites. I simply de-worm every 3-6 months to play it safe. One of the most well known goat/sheep ladies lives near us. She has told me they constantly have had problems with the tape worms...another friend and rancher de-worms every 3 months like clockwork, so I figured I should do the same.

A couple things to consider. Since Federal and State income tax season is fast approaching, the sheep, fencing , gates , feeders, barns, and equipment can be depreciated over time. Hay, grain, medicine can be expenced. Since you now see that the Blcckbellies are not profitable. Find a very good CPA that specializes in farm/ livestock. Since you already made the decision to sell the unprofitable sheep,( you have no way of knowing IF you can sell them for $4,000 next year ) I would dump those Blackbellies at your earliest livestock sale asap to cut your losses. Then recontact the Dorper breeders that you talked to earlier and make an offer on this year's lamb crop. Better quality livestock will be more profitable than what you can get at the livestock sale. Good luck !

Thanks Boss! I have a CPA friend that helped me with the Schedule F. I think now I must show a profit within the first 3-5 years...man, I sure hope this works! Now I am debating whether or not to keep sheep all year round. Not sure now if it can profitable. I am toying with the idea of simply populating during the "green" season with baby Dorpers, then selling all of em' once the green grass all dies. I am almost certain that may be profitable. If I find time, I will visit the auction tomorrow to see how the prices are on the baby lambs...

Are there any horned hair breeds that can bring a little more meat than black bellies? I happen to have a good market for mine but would like to increase size and keep horns.

Blue Sky, I have no clue at all. Please ask the more seasoned sheep breeders here!

I sure hope I do not sound mean, cold, cruel and greedy, but waiting 18 months for a sheep to obtain selling weight is simply way too long for us.

No, you sound like a sheep farmer who is trying to make sound business decisions.

Finally, after I become very rich from selling the fat Dorpers, perhaps I can move to the Bahama's, retire early, buy a hammock, and drink lots of coconut juice.

With Hurricane Matthew, the size of the state of Arizona, hanging out in the region, you might want to wait on that....

B

Baymule, I am trying to get out of the $7000 hole I am in right now. I simply cannot afford to keep losing this type of money.

And according to the news, that is one heck of a mean hurricane!

 

[babsbag]

Tape worms can be tough to get rid of; at least in goats so I would suspect that sheep are the same. You have to worm for multiple days in a row, like 3-5 and for goats we have to use a higher dosage than what is listed on the package. I don't have a problem with worms as I have no pasture and the goats get alfalfa in feeders year round, they don't eat off of the ground, but even then I do see tape on occasion. Worming on schedule is not really a good idea, but I understand the ease of it. The worms are building an immunity to the wormers and are getting harder and harder to kill so it is best to worm only as needed. At the least I would collect some berries from a few sheep and have them checked by a vet, that will give you a "whole flock" view; better would to be to do the entire flock, but that can get expensive. You really need to know if you have worms and are the wormers working. It is also nice to know if some sheep handle it better than others, those are the ones you want to keep and breed. If you go to irrigated pasture next year parasite control becomes more of an issue.

Do you use a pour on wormer?

Do you teach at a high school or middle school that has a science lab? Maybe you can get them to learn to do your fecals for you.

 

[Bossroo]

The young lambs that go to auction are those that are born in late spring or summer or due to poor genetics, so growing them to finish weight is not cost effective. Also , they will bring in parasites to infest your pastures that would be very hard to irradicate. Now, if you should consider to buy quality Dorper ewe lambs, grow them out and since they breed year round, I would consider to have them drop their lambs in late Aug./ early Sept.( grass still brown so you will have to feed good quality alfalfa for a month or 2) then wean them at 3 months of age and finish on green grass. In the mean time rebreed the ewes as soon as possible after they give birth so that they will have their lambs 2 - 3 months after their first lambs are weaned you can have 2 lamb crops during your grass growing season.

 

[soarwitheagles]

Tape worms can be tough to get rid of; at least in goats so I would suspect that sheep are the same. You have to worm for multiple days in a row, like 3-5 and for goats we have to use a higher dosage than what is listed on the package. I don't have a problem with worms as I have no pasture and the goats get alfalfa in feeders year round, they don't eat off of the ground, but even then I do see tape on occasion. Worming on schedule is not really a good idea, but I understand the ease of it. The worms are building an immunity to the wormers and are getting harder and harder to kill so it is best to worm only as needed. At the least I would collect some berries from a few sheep and have them checked by a vet, that will give you a "whole flock" view; better would to be to do the entire flock, but that can get expensive. You really need to know if you have worms and are the wormers working. It is also nice to know if some sheep handle it better than others, those are the ones you want to keep and breed. If you go to irrigated pasture next year parasite control becomes more of an issue.

Do you use a pour on wormer?

Do you teach at a high school or middle school that has a science lab? Maybe you can get them to learn to do your fecals for you.

I do not think we have had any tape worms, but a lady rancher nearby has had an awful problem with them. According to her, you can see them hanging out the rear end.

I have not yet purchased all the items to do our sheep fecal test. I would like to purchase the items and learn how to do it one day. These sheep were de-wormed the day I purchased them. Then we dewormed them again in May. And then again last month in August. I suspect they did have worms in May due to lack of body weight, lethargy, and general misery. Within a few days after deworming, they were like an entirely different animal. It was amazing.

We used Ivermectin in January and in May, we then switched to Prohibit. The Prohibit is what showed the incredible results. After doing a lot of reading, we discovered there are three main families of dewormers, and that it is a good idea to alternate dewormer families each time we treat. I understand the risk of building immunity to dewormers, but for now, I feel as if I have no other choice.

I am still toying with the idea of planting for silage. Fava beans this week, then corn in the summer. But I my biggest concern is if I can make the silage "ferment" rather than mold. It must be done just right if it is to be usable. Does anyone here have any experience in this?

The young lambs that go to auction are those that are born in late spring or summer or due to poor genetics, so growing them to finish weight is not cost effective. Also , they will bring in parasites to infest your pastures that would be very hard to irradicate. Now, if you should consider to buy quality Dorper ewe lambs, grow them out and since they breed year round, I would consider to have them drop their lambs in late Aug./ early Sept.( grass still brown so you will have to feed good quality alfalfa for a month or 2) then wean them at 3 months of age and finish on green grass. In the mean time rebreed the ewes as soon as possible after they give birth so that they will have their lambs 2 - 3 months after their first lambs are weaned you can have 2 lamb crops during your grass growing season.

Boss, nice plan! I found some Dorper lamb sellers up near Redding, but their prices were kinda high [$120 per lamb if I buy 20 or more]. Then I would need quite some time before they would be ready for breeding? By the way, how much time do lambs need before being ready to breed? A year or more?

I realized purchasing at the auction is a great risk. But at $60-$80 per lamb, I was thinking I might be willing to purchase a larger flock, quarantine them for 1-2 months, and give it a try. But I never considered the poor genetics. Our lady rancher nearby offered top of the line ewe lambs for $150 a piece. I feel that is way too high of a price to pay. I also realize beginning with good stock is a must too.

Man, decisions, decisions!

 

[babsbag]

Personally I would buy the best lambs you can get even if it means buying less. They are the foundation stock for your herd so I would get the best you can. And if you have to buy mediocre then buy the absolute top of the line ram and build up from there. I would never buy my foundation stock from an auction, they are there for a reason. If they didn't grow for the seller they aren't going to grow for you. Nobody I know takes there breeders to be sold at auction. JMO, but I understand budget constraints. Also, I would want my foundation stock to be tested for the common sheep diseases. CL and OPPV come to mind but there may be others.

You should be able to breed your lambs the first year. My friends that have lambs born in early spring are breeding them in the fall.