Hipshot
Loving the herd life
I'll in to deep to give up . Besides I just bought 500ml of ivermictin and that cost more than a goat ,
Is SafeGuard wormer safe for my pregnant doe?
- Thread starter Susyr22
- Start date
Southern by choice
Herd Master
Label dose for fenben is useless and will only build resistance (if it is safegard for goats). It says for goats but that dosage is a cattle dosage.
As far as bloodwork. Drawing blood from the jugular is EASY! Save the farm call and do it your self. You can send the blood to the lab you choose.
Congrats on the new kids! YAY! Keep an eye on the dam's temp, and hay intake.
So where are the kid pics? We do need to oooh and awwwwwwww over them, kinda like a rule here.
As far as bloodwork. Drawing blood from the jugular is EASY! Save the farm call and do it your self. You can send the blood to the lab you choose.
Congrats on the new kids! YAY! Keep an eye on the dam's temp, and hay intake.
So where are the kid pics? We do need to oooh and awwwwwwww over them, kinda like a rule here.
Hipshot
Loving the herd life
I'll have to find blood tubes, and a lab . New fly in the ointment. The down doe has kidded this morning with helpLabel dose for fenben is useless and will only build resistance (if it is safegard for goats). It says for goats but that dosage is a cattle dosage.
As far as bloodwork. Drawing blood from the jugular is EASY! Save the farm call and do it your self. You can send the blood to the lab you choose.
Congrats on the new kids! YAY! Keep an eye on the dam's temp, and hay intake.
So where are the kid pics? We do need to oooh and awwwwwwww over them, kinda like a rule here.
A real mess. She has stood only with help . So I'm off for milk replacer and goat bottles . The lady gave me nipples .Really both sad and angry. I can put my hand around her backbone As of now both buckling's are alive .Can I save Them is the big question . I'm soaked to the bone raining all morning . Aw farm life never changes . Never bottle fed a goat before .Lots of calves. I will try to get them to nurse colostrum when I return . And pictures when I can
Mini Horses
Herd Master
Most people replying are NOT veterinarians. They are experienced breeders and sometimes better able to answer than some vets, experience is a great teacher.
Many questions are to help them advise you and not create MORE issues, if possible. Some symptoms can cover multiple situations. Some meds are safe in late pregnancy and not in early, etc. Some won't work on everything...…
I'm sorry you feel frustrated with us
BUT some of these responders have handled more goat troubles in a month than you may in your lifetime. Pls be patient and know that the intent is to help you, nothing more. But that often requires some Q&A.Your heart is good -- these girls NEED YOU. Bring them to health and they will reward you in years to come. Yes, get colostrum into those little ones. You may well lose some of this group, as I am certain you know already. We are all rooting for them to get well an live a good life. Kudos for taking them in.
ABSOLUTELY quarantine. Absolutely keep asking!
I'm sure you are desperate & frustrated and listening to a complaining wife. She will chill out, just plan on making your own sandwich for dinner.
Baymule
Herd Master
I'll have to find blood tubes, and a lab . New fly in the ointment. The down doe has kidded this morning with help
That poor thing. Maybe you can save the bucklings, maybe not. But you will try and give it your best. Poor doe, starved and pregnant. Maybe now she can gain strength. Poor babies, they were starved internally, hope it turns out ok for them. Sad, really sad. I know one thing, these goats have just grabbed the Golden Ticket, a home with YOU.
frustratedearthmother
Herd Master
- Joined
- May 7, 2013
- Messages
- 8,111
- Reaction score
- 14,944
- Points
- 623
Just makes ya wanna cry. That poor doe gave everything she had to those babies. I sure hope you can get them all through this.
Southern by choice
Herd Master
You may want to look at wormx.com (Click on link below)
American Consortium for Small Ruminant Parasite Control
This has quite a few articles and suggested dosages, however some are still not what is always recommended.
These are the leading researchers however, again, it comes down to experience in many cases. Hence the protocol differences I mentioned above. Example- If I had a goat with a tremendously high load and severly anemic and weak then I would not use their protocol. Most people fail to understand that using heavy deworming protocols can actually be toxic.
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/6ef604_9079a9707ff94516878958da7857d275.pdf
1) Macrocyclic Lactones This drug group consists of avermectins (ivermectin, abamectin, doramectin, eprinomectin, selamectin) and milbemycins (milbemycinoxime, moxidectin). The macrocyclic lactones are used to treat both internal and external parasites and therefore there is a risk of overdose if using the same group to treat for worms and for mites for example. This is also the reason that there is widespread anthelmintic resistance to this group especially with Haemonchuscontortus. The residence time of the drug when administered by subcutaneous injection depends on body condition score (BCS) and hence fat reserves, as the product is taken up by the fat cells and released slowly into the blood stream. Cattle treated with 1.0mg/kg showed neurotoxicity and severe toxicosis with 2 to 8mg/kg. Sheep given a 3x overdose did not show adverse effects. Reported cases of toxicity are usually due to administration errors such as administering intra- muscularly or intra-venous and repeated unintended treatment due to poor animal identification. In thin or emaciated animals there will not be a slower release and more of the drug is released into the blood stream at one time than in animals that have fat reserves. Young animals do not have a very well developed blood-brain barrier and thus are more prone to adverse effects. Goats tend to deposit fat abdominally and so have less of a subcutaneous fat reserve. Oral dosing will be absorbed quicker into the blood. Therefore this group of drugs must be used with caution in young or thin animals and goats. There is no antidote available for treatment.
You will notice in that article fenben is part of the white dewormers class, most white dewormers are not given to pregnant animals but as mentioned above there are differences of when is safe and not. Fenbendazole has been used safely for years, in UK and other parts of the world it is even prescribed for pregnant dogs.
I tend to use a lot of research from outside the states as the states does very little with goats, there is little money in goats so no funding. This is why so much is off label and requires a relationship with your vet.
Not all vets are goat savvy.
I am a strong believer in developing relationship with your vet. Find a good one if you can- you may need to go through a few before you find one.
What worms have been identified? What is the FAMACHA also? I would look at the EPG counts and talk to your vet about red-cell. A goat that is severely anemic and extremely deficient can benefit from redcell.
American Consortium for Small Ruminant Parasite Control
This has quite a few articles and suggested dosages, however some are still not what is always recommended.
These are the leading researchers however, again, it comes down to experience in many cases. Hence the protocol differences I mentioned above. Example- If I had a goat with a tremendously high load and severly anemic and weak then I would not use their protocol. Most people fail to understand that using heavy deworming protocols can actually be toxic.
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/6ef604_9079a9707ff94516878958da7857d275.pdf
1) Macrocyclic Lactones This drug group consists of avermectins (ivermectin, abamectin, doramectin, eprinomectin, selamectin) and milbemycins (milbemycinoxime, moxidectin). The macrocyclic lactones are used to treat both internal and external parasites and therefore there is a risk of overdose if using the same group to treat for worms and for mites for example. This is also the reason that there is widespread anthelmintic resistance to this group especially with Haemonchuscontortus. The residence time of the drug when administered by subcutaneous injection depends on body condition score (BCS) and hence fat reserves, as the product is taken up by the fat cells and released slowly into the blood stream. Cattle treated with 1.0mg/kg showed neurotoxicity and severe toxicosis with 2 to 8mg/kg. Sheep given a 3x overdose did not show adverse effects. Reported cases of toxicity are usually due to administration errors such as administering intra- muscularly or intra-venous and repeated unintended treatment due to poor animal identification. In thin or emaciated animals there will not be a slower release and more of the drug is released into the blood stream at one time than in animals that have fat reserves. Young animals do not have a very well developed blood-brain barrier and thus are more prone to adverse effects. Goats tend to deposit fat abdominally and so have less of a subcutaneous fat reserve. Oral dosing will be absorbed quicker into the blood. Therefore this group of drugs must be used with caution in young or thin animals and goats. There is no antidote available for treatment.
You will notice in that article fenben is part of the white dewormers class, most white dewormers are not given to pregnant animals but as mentioned above there are differences of when is safe and not. Fenbendazole has been used safely for years, in UK and other parts of the world it is even prescribed for pregnant dogs.
I tend to use a lot of research from outside the states as the states does very little with goats, there is little money in goats so no funding. This is why so much is off label and requires a relationship with your vet.
Not all vets are goat savvy.
I am a strong believer in developing relationship with your vet. Find a good one if you can- you may need to go through a few before you find one.
What worms have been identified? What is the FAMACHA also? I would look at the EPG counts and talk to your vet about red-cell. A goat that is severely anemic and extremely deficient can benefit from redcell.
Mini Horses
Herd Master
AMEN !!
Goats & sheep tend to not "show" issues until far along, often too late. So sick & gone fast.
Hipshot
Loving the herd life
As I said all advice or almost advice given here is great advice . I guess you could say I'm old and take the direct approach. And questions that start with why require a long explanation most of the time. Questions that began with is , Require as direct an answer as possible . Yes? Just my way of thinking . You have to remember that most people are really stumped, searching for answers and relie on those with the experience to help. And TMI can really confuse some people A vet like a doctor either is a general veterinary medicine or specializes in one group or the other .Don't know a single one that specializes in goats. The one I know has a small animal practice but will do goats .Knowledge gained through experience is by far the greatest knowledge to have . My vet works like this . When my wife asks him something about my horse , he asks her what do I sayMost people replying are NOT veterinarians. They are experienced breeders and sometimes better able to answer than some vets, experience is a great teacher.
Many questions are to help them advise you and not create MORE issues, if possible. Some symptoms can cover multiple situations. Some meds are safe in late pregnancy and not in early, etc. Some won't work on everything...…
I'm sorry you feel frustrated with us
Your heart is good -- these girls NEED YOU. Bring them to health and they will reward you in years to come. Yes, get colostrum into those little ones. You may well lose some of this group, as I am certain you know already. We are all rooting for them to get well an live a good life. Kudos for taking them in.
ABSOLUTELY quarantine. Absolutely keep asking!
I'm sure you are desperate & frustrated and listening to a complaining wife. She will chill out, just plan on making your own sandwich for dinner.
Makes her mad too. I am a dumb ole country boy ,but have enough sense to know you can't show profit paying a thousand dollar vet bill on a two hundred dollar goat . We are pretty sharp when it comes t doctoring cows and horses and hogs. Goats are new to us more or less . Last time my family had goats you could buy all you wanted for ten to fifteen dollars apiece . Just want you to know how much I appreciate this web site, and respect those that dwell here . So thank you one and all for your help and advice 
Don't mean to be rude just I'm to direct sometimes . 
Goats are in quarantine. poto bomb next
Southern by choice
Herd Master
As I said all advice or almost advice given here is great advice . I guess you could say I'm old and take the direct approach. And questions that start with why require a long explanation most of the time. Questions that began with is , Require as direct an answer as possible . Yes? Just my way of thinking . You have to remember that most people are really stumped, searching for answers and relie on those with the experience to help. And TMI can really confuse some people A vet like a doctor either is a general veterinary medicine or specializes in one group or the other .Don't know a single one that specializes in goats. The one I know has a small animal practice but will do goats .Knowledge gained through experience is by far the greatest knowledge to have . My vet works like this . When my wife asks him something about my horse , he asks her what do I say
LOL I get it, sometimes I just want a yes or no too. The hard thing is online you don't know each other (most of the time) and never know the level of experience.
Can't wait to see pics.
