Is SafeGuard wormer safe for my pregnant doe?

[Hipshot]

Awww. That made me tear up a bit. There really is something when you do all you can and hope beyond hope... I do believe in miracles! I do believe that some are gifted as well.

I guess you all already know but in case others reading this don't know... always get kid up to temp before trying to feed. Never feed a cold goat. ---- Your wife must have done a heck of a job warming the kid!

Glad these goats have you all to care for them. You may want to consider that redcell for the weak doe.
Don't know if you've ever used it before. We keep a jug on hand. Red cell (for horses).

So much to take in and much more to learn. Frist off my wife I could go on and on about . BS From UConn, Grand father farmed in Canada loved babies from the beginning. Ran the calving operation at Meadow Gold Dairy's in Hawaii on Oahu In 1979 80 and 81.Right out of college. Then married me Came to Tennessee to live . Said the same thing you said .Get the body temperature up first . Gave the kid a sub continuous injection for dehydration .What was in that bottle I don't know . The label was gone . That was the main thing I was digging for . And fetching needles and syringes and mixing colostrum. She tell me what and I do . Has an eye for cattle that would rival any man . Me I'm a professional ditch digger .I can't tell you how many times that line has gotten me in trouble .After moving here she couldn't find a job working with cattle .She raised calves for a few years and feeder pigs . While I dug ditches, finally got a job managing a small animal hospital. Did that for ever .She did that till 87 then we bought the farm and she worried about money . Took a part time job as a file clerk at the county hospital . That turned into a full time biller .That turned into a supervisor .That turned into a director . That lasted seven or eight years . Which in all totaled 19. New CEO no more job . Year off and Then traveled the country for three years I think. As a project manager . I didn't get to go . All the time still doing the billing for the animal hospital. Got paid in supplies and what little work we needed . Kids in high school and a special needs son . So I worked and took care of the farm and young'uns best I could .The point is yes there is a point. No telling what kind of big shot party I would be drug off to . When asked what I did well professional ditch digger was the answer . Boy that made her upset Now where that came from is . Had friend who was a professional photographer .Had mountains of magazines. I read hundreds of them and came across this . The definition of a professional is someone who makes their living at it .made sense to me I guess your not supposed to say such things in front of corporate people Why off topic ain't I. Don't dig many ditches now . So now I just say I'm A trophy husband .Really don't think I'm supposed to say that neither .

See -- your wife was annoyed at YOU, not the goats!!!! I LOVE the happy ending for that little one. Colostrum is a magical potion!

So happy for you and especially those goats.


YES-- I like direct answers, also. As SBC says, it's different when someone whose farm, animals, methods, person you know asks. You can almost KNOW what has been done, is there, etc. We all appreciate vets are expensive and sometimes iffy. A farm must be able to survive "on their own" for most things. Hey, I understand...am there, also old , do what I can/need 50 yrs with animals, pretty much done it all. Even C-section on a goat!

ETA: Do you realize that if the previous owner couldn't get around to care for these does that pretty much every kid would have died??? You save so many lives!

Thank you and lives saved has been topic of discussion all day . Even was told that they look so much better in just one week . Full bellies is all .Never did a C-section before . Guess I would try . Did it work ? Not sure what is going on One of the little bucklings wouldn't eat last feeding . His belly seemed full . I hoped maybe they were nursing the doe . I really can't tell looking at her teats. Formula is warming up I'm going back out in a few minutes to try again. All three have had a touch of scours . Nothing major just a touch .Wife insist I keep them wiped and washed clean . The doe that was down is just making remarkable improvement .I really expected to lose her too. I asked My wife today how she was going to explain the baby goat in her office tomorrow She likes watching TV so today she went out at the bucklings feedings and was allowed to prowl around. I have a little folding dog coral . If the weather is good tomorrow ,I'll set it up in the yard and let her stay out side a little while . She is soooo spoiled won't nurse for my wife, if she isn't holding her . You know how it is . We say we won't get to attached but do it anyway . We will do all we can for them. But really it's up to god.

 

[Baymule]

These goats are going to not only pull through, but thrive with such devoted care.

 

[B&B Happy goats]

So happy to read that everyone is improving

 

[Hipshot]

Goats are a making me nuts . The wet weather we are having, is really causing my main flock to have reoccurring foot root . I get it clear and a week later it's back . All but the sick flock that is, their pen is well drained . The sick flock is holding their own . all but one .A young buck is the only one lost he was just to far down and just wouldn't come back .The others are looking about the same. But gaining ground slowly. Of the eight does five have kidded there are seven healthy kids running around .The last one last night . And it's one of those times when your glad it was a single birth. The little doe is just to poor for two. And still better than she was when she came here . I hope the others aren't with kid . And the doe that was down is making body condition progress . Still bottle feeding the three .Feeding the does that are lactating ,milk production enhancing feed . And Wife insisted that I feed them all calf manna . So I'm mixing feeds and trying to make sure they each get what they need . Just to busy to take pictures . Maybe tomorrow . As soon as I can remember my camera . Flip phone don't take pictures

 

[Southern by choice]

The wet weather we are having, is really causing my main flock to have reoccurring foot root . I get it clear and a week later it's back .

@Goat Whisperer isn't there something good you heard about?

On the rest...

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I saw this in the premier 1 catalogue. Might be worth a try.

https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/footcure

 

[goatboy1973]

Safeguard is a really ineffective wormer around here. We only use it if we know the goat has tapeworms since it does work on them. You may want to ask for an alternative such as Ivomec Plus. Valbazen is good, but NOT for pregnant does.

Safeguard is effective if you follow the instructions to the letter...most people don't and it will fail every time. You are supposed to withhold food for 24 hours prior to giving Safeguard...give it on an empty stomach. After the Safeguard is given, put the goats out on a clean pasture. I have seen this scenario for years...a farmer or goat producer will take a herd of goats straight off pasture, run them straight through the chute and into the head gate and give their goats a big honkin' dose of Safeguard and then turn the goats out right back on an infected/ infested pasture and expect the Safeguard to clean the goats out and magically continue to kill worms indefinitely...not gonna happen! No dewormers on the market will work this way and if anyone tells you their dewormers works with a poor management strategy like this is a fool and wasting their money, and don't even consider buying a single goat from them. The key to fighting parasites being resistant to certain dewormers is to deworm with only the amount needed per their weight as directed on the labeling insert that comes with the dewormers, rotating to a clean pasture after deworming, and strict culling of all animals that need multiple deworminsg (poor parasite restance). The use of Copasure Copper Wire Capsule boluses in our herd every 6 months, constant free choice goat minerals, and pasture rotation insure that our goat herd is at its optimal health so that they can tolerate a parasite load because you will never ever eliminate every single internal parasite from a goat ever. It is impossible. So good management practices will go a long way to insuring you have a good healthy goat herd from years to come.

 

[Southern by choice]

Safeguard is effective if you follow the instructions to the letter...most people don't and it will fail every time. You are supposed to withhold food for 24 hours prior to giving Safeguard...give it on an empty stomach.

YES! EMPTY STOMACH!

The key to fighting parasites being resistant to certain dewormers is to deworm with only the amount needed per their weight as directed on the labeling insert that comes with the dewormers,

Safegaurds labeling isn't for goats, it is for cattle so these instructions are not going to be effective. The leading research on Safegaurd has dosage 2-3x the dose on the label (the one labeled for goats anyway). It is, from what I understand, glucose inhibitor and basically "stuns" the parasites so must be given 3-5 days consecutively- 1 dose is useless and will be ineffective and cause resistance. The labeling for most other dewormers is either not labeled for goats and therefore is given by vet recommendation. Unfortunately you have a huge range from vet to vet. Many also do no follow up.
There are also precautions for giving to very sick and emaciated goats as well as young goats but it seems this is bypassed and the "new standard" is to hit with 2 dewormers and hit them hard. This is killing goats but amazing how this is not discussed or connected to the treatment- it is just chalked up to the parasites. No supportive care is being given to many of these goats in severe shape. Very sad.

The use of Copasure Copper Wire Capsule boluses in our herd every 6 months, constant free choice goat minerals, and pasture rotation insure that our goat herd is at its optimal health so that they can tolerate a parasite load because you will never ever eliminate every single internal parasite from a goat ever.

This is a difficult issue and knowing what your herd needs is critical. For some giving copper every 6 months has led to toxicity and death. In your herd this has been so beneficial!
Water values also contribute as well as molybdenum.

I also believe type of goat plays a big role. Meat goats and dairy goats are very different animals IMO. I have seen quite a few dairy herds that actually had stress blooms every time they were rotated to different pastures as dairy goats are extreme creatures of habit. Sometimes it is crazy- moving them a fenceline over can cause huge stress. Certain breeds are a lot easier going than others when it comes to this, others act like they moved across the country. Where as most meatgoats don't care one bit about rotating and will fare far better with rotation.

Years ago we went against all the "teaching" about pasture height. (dairy does)
We MOW! We have always mowed since first getting goats. We mowed all the time. Never had any parasitic issues. The years where we had such horrid rains where we couldn't mow because everything was so wet we had goats needing dewormed. When we couldn't mow the hot and humid conditions never allowed anything to dry out. We stood by this for years while many laughed at it mocked and blah blah blah. But we felt better to let that sun dry that stuff out underneath or we would just be creating the prime environment.
Our Meatgoats we handled differently - but they were Kikos. They really only ate brush and vines and foliage. They pretty much never ate any grass.

Last year an "official" study came out saying... hmmm mowing is keeping parasites down.
I guess our method is now legitimate because someone with titles did an official study and it is no longer anecdotal.

I think observation, paying attention to your herd, the conditions and understanding how your goats respond to treatments, environment are important. Herd management is very individual.

@goatboy1973 you have a lovely herd and it has been nice seeing you back on a bit!

 

[goatboy1973]

SBC, glad to be back again. We bush hog our paddocks in the Spring and summer when the parasites are the worst. We rotate to a clean pasture and the pasture that the goats just left is bush hogged and allowed to grow up for 3 months before goats are back on it again. My grandfather used an old sickle bar mower to clip our pastures when we had registered Simmental show cattle. He always said, "I clip the pastures to kill worms so that the cattle don't get wormy."

 

[Hipshot]

SBC, glad to be back again. We bush hog our paddocks in the Spring and summer when the parasites are the worst. We rotate to a clean pasture and the pasture that the goats just left is bush hogged and allowed to grow up for 3 months before goats are back on it again. My grandfather used an old sickle bar mower to clip our pastures when we had registered Simmental show cattle. He always said, "I clip the pastures to kill worms so that the cattle don't get wormy."

Well when your pasture is the kind where the animals stand around waiting for a weed to grow. And then fight over it Pasture clipping isn't a problem .Since goats are new to the farm . Sheep were pastured here some fifty years ago . My main flock is in good health .They are just going through their second year here . These new goats are confined in quarantine. I'm not overly concerned about what is in the ground at this point. I agree pasture management is a must and the key to parasite control .The goats graze on my hay fields after the fall cutting .They are Boer and Boer crosses ?????Little of this and that who knows . I really appreciate al the knowledge you and SBC have laid out for me to digest . The safeguard I am using says nothing of fasting the animal before treatment. Just some info I came across on line This person has a website only I'm no good at posting a link.I'll try.On second thought, I just figured out where all the spam emails I'm getting are coming from So forget the link .But I thought the information was worth keeping so I sniped it and saved it .It is a very aggressive treatment .I feel that if a animal is in very poor condition it just cant handle the treatment.