It is so saddening to see LGDS jump from home to home where I live

[NH homesteader]

Mostly what we see here (which isn't all that much) is also poorly bred pets. Some pits, lots of golden retriever type dogs. We have kill and no kill shelters near me, but they seem disproportionally full of bully breeds. I have a dog who is a bully breed, so I am so not on the anti pit wagon, to clarify! That being said, there are far far more rescue dogs from the south. Which is great. My dig was rescued in vitro, haha, but his pregnant mother was left on the truck while the dog officer (so sorry I have no idea the correct term) went into a store to pay for gas.

 

[Southern by choice]

I am not a "rescue" type.
I do however look for LGD's that may not have had a fair shake at things.

Some people will actually give up a dog for chasing poultry.

I get calls all the time... people wanting the dog to be good with poultry... when I tell them it takes work and they will lose some along the way and they will need to train them they think that is too much work.
You tell them there are trained dogs out there and they could get a trained dog.

They don't want to pay the price for a trained dog.
I guess a year of feeding, vet care, training, loss of the trainers poultry etc should all just be free.

 

[NH homesteader]

I don't know much about training LGDs, but I know you have to do a ton of training with any dog! I know some people who keep their Pyrenees in with their bucks because if they let it out with the does it can't handle them being all over the place and starts trying to (somewhat aggressively) herd them.. But I don't think they trained him at all, so of course he doesn't know how to behave! At least they found a solution that works for them and he's being taken care of.

People really expect dogs to be trained without paying extra? Wow.

 

[Ponker]

Our neighbors bought a pup and chained her in with the sheep. It was horrible. Then, they decided she needed a friend and bought another, and put that pup in with the sheep and just left them there. They were even bragging about being able to catch them when necessary! OMG

When we bought our dog, I was told to get a book. And I read it cover to cover. I still research because I haven't owned a LGD before but have owned a beautiful well-trained Dobe, Chow, and Cane Corso. While being able to properly manage these large dominant breeds prepared me for the challenge, it was necessary to forget it all and start over.

Prince is now 8 months old and has turned my last black hairs gray, had me cussing a blue streak that embarrassed my neighbors, and just about shredded every ounce of my patience. I see him now beginning to trust his instincts. He has never killed a chicken or duck and they have free-ranged since he set his first paw on the property. he has stopped chasing the lambs! YAY! (I'll take that WIN!) He is still mouthy - likes to chew on everything including the cat, wool still connected to sheep, and metal table legs. His newest trick is to chase the cars that pass by our house. We live on a gravel road and have a perimeter fence so he can't get in the road. We were at the pond letting out the new ducklings out of the duck enclosure in the morning and he was watching the action. Then, he heard a car approach. He got up and took off for the front of the house. All the way from the pond! He chases all along the fence. It started a week ago.

I see dogs for sale around here for $50. I also see dogs for sale much higher. People asked me if I got Prince from Camp because they're known for their great dogs.

I know people just shoot dogs when they don't work out. The neighbors who I mentioned at the beginning can't keep their dogs in. Their pets even roam and they don't get shots. I've had to stop my truck on the road and put their dogs back in the pasture before they get hit by a car. Their last dog ended up run over by someone coming out of their lane. Sad sad sad.

Thing is, people just don't talk about it. when we got Prince and decided to train him instead of throwing him in with the sheep and forgetting him, the neighbor laughed and told us he'd make a good pet. I just shrugged and didn't answer. i'd rather have Prince come when called, like to be handled, and stay on the property. It's harder to train him properly. That's ok, I'd rather try than leave it to fate. So far, he's not killed anything except the small rodents the cat brings him. I think the cat is trying to train him. LOL

Around here free dogs end up sold to clinics for animal testing.

 

[Southern by choice]

I don't know much about training LGDs, but I know you have to do a ton of training with any dog!

For a good LGD, properly selected there really isn't alot of training. The "training" is mostly poultry. The other side is partnering.
Working with these dogs naot as a MASTER but as a partner. We work as a team. I am part of that team... I am alpha, but then there is a seconf alpha amongst the dogs... yet they learn each other's strengths and work with it.

Pyrenees in with their bucks because if they let it out with the does it can't handle them being all over the place and starts trying to (somewhat aggressively) herd them.. But I don't think they trained him at all, so of course he doesn't know how to behave!

There is much on this subject that I really should post about in my teaching moments thread. Novices simply do not get what is going on and often become very frustrated.
Maybe I will work on a post about this.

People really expect dogs to be trained without paying extra?

Yeah. People who just want cheap... they usually are the first to dispose of a dog.

he has stopped chasing the lambs! YAY! (I'll take that WIN!) He is still mouthy - likes to chew on everything including the cat, wool still connected to sheep, and metal table legs.

With this behavior EVER happening he should have been evaluated differently. Glad you chose to work with him but it is not "normal" to have LGD's chase lambs or goats and mouth them.

His newest trick is to chase the cars that pass by our house. We live on a gravel road and have a perimeter fence so he can't get in the road.

LOL there is a reason for this as well.
Some of it is for protection, some is play, some is exercise.
Maybe I will put up a post on the subject in teaching moments.

 

[cjc]

Long story short people are total jerks. I don't know how people can do this to an animal. I always say to family members and friends that the moment to pick up that cute puppy/dog its an obligation for life. You are PROMISING them you will take care of them. Whether its a LGD or not it doesn't matter its purpose, it's wrong in my opinion. We didn't shoot ours, or give ours away when we realized one of the reasons we got him wasn't going to work because he was a mad man chicken killer. No way. I picked that cute puppy out and I am obligated to give him a good life now plain and simple.

My sister just recently adopted a Rottweiler from a local shelter in our area. The dog was one year and should have been about 80-90lbs. She was 31lbs!!!! She was starved to almost death. Finally the authorities stepped in after multiple times of this dog being reported as being abused and now the dog is with my sister. She is a good dog surprisingly after everything she has been through. Honestly, I would have a lot of choice words for the guy that did that to that dog.

Sorry this is a soft spot to me. As I look at my elderly dogs, one 12, one 10 both ridden with so many problems over the years I just cant imagine deserting them. Even though they are aggressive to other animals now, they are old cranky and covered in flaws, they are my dogs. It is my responsibility to ensure that they are cared for and die happy.

 

[Southern by choice]

Long story short people are total jerks. I don't know how people can do this to an animal. I always say to family members and friends that the moment to pick up that cute puppy/dog its an obligation for life. You are PROMISING them you will take care of them. Whether its a LGD or not it doesn't matter its purpose, it's wrong in my opinion. We didn't shoot ours, or give ours away when we realized one of the reasons we got him wasn't going to work because he was a mad man chicken killer. No way. I picked that cute puppy out and I am obligated to give him a good life now plain and simple.
.

Purpose does matter.
LGD's do not (if a true guardian) always fair well in a "pet" environment.
I am a believer in euthanasia. I see far to many animals that are severely unstable, gross health issues and yet these animals are adopted out and should NOT be.

There is a difference between the animal kingdom and humans.

I see way to many rescuers that have no clue and want to save everything. Not everything should be.
I see so many that observe something and automatically assume the dog somehow had some past abuse. It is so "Overdone". Truth is many that are labeled "abused" are simply neurotic dogs with unstable temperaments that never endured any abuse.
I have seen dogs slink, cower, and shake and because I KNOW the owners know they were never abused. But if relinquished to a shelter they would swear it had some dark horrid past.

Genetics play a role.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Purpose does matter.
LGD's do not (if a true guardian) always fair well in a "pet" environment.
I am a believer in euthanasia. I see far to many animals that are severely unstable, gross health issues and yet these animals are adopted out and should NOT be.

There is a difference between the animal kingdom and humans.

I see way to many rescuers that have no clue and want to save everything. Not everything should be.
I see so many that observe something and automatically assume the dog somehow had some past abuse. It is so "Overdone". Truth is many that are labeled "abused" are simply neurotic dogs with unstable temperaments that never endured any abuse.
I have seen dogs slink, cower, and shake and because I KNOW the owners know they were never abused. But if relinquished to a shelter they would swear it had some dark horrid past.

Genetics play a role.

I agree Southern for the most part. I've owned my now 12yr old dog since she was 6 weeks old she was never abused or mistreated and she still cowers or shakes or hides. I've had several dogs over the years and many displayed the cower behavior without ever being abused...my thinking on it is it might be linked to a submissive personality? im not sure but i know ive only had 1 dog who wasnt "submissive" and thats our 1 year old Doberman Pincher but he isnt at all mean, he listens well, he just doest respect my space as much as i would like which we are working on still. We have started training him to herd so shall see how that goes.

As far as not all dogs should be saved i agree 100%. We used to be part of a pitbull rescue where they stole pits from people fighting them and sent them to different houses in the network to be rehabilitated. Many many were put to sleep, which in all honesty was better for them then either staying to be fight/bait dogs or trying to rehabilitate. We always tried very hard but some were simply broken in the head or the heart. Massive food aggression, instant bite response, severe nervous behavior, huge amounts of anxiety...sometimes it was just kinder to let them take the big nap. One of the hardest things to train was, if the new pit attacked one of the rehabilitated pits that it was NOT ok to attack back.

 

[misfitmorgan]

For a good LGD, properly selected there really isn't alot of training. The "training" is mostly poultry. The other side is partnering.
Working with these dogs naot as a MASTER but as a partner. We work as a team. I am part of that team... I am alpha, but then there is a seconf alpha amongst the dogs... yet they learn each other's strengths and work with it.


There is much on this subject that I really should post about in my teaching moments thread. Novices simply do not get what is going on and often become very frustrated.
Maybe I will work on a post about this.


Yeah. People who just want cheap... they usually are the first to dispose of a dog.


With this behavior EVER happening he should have been evaluated differently. Glad you chose to work with him but it is not "normal" to have LGD's chase lambs or goats and mouth them.


LOL there is a reason for this as well.
Some of it is for protection, some is play, some is exercise.
Maybe I will put up a post on the subject in teaching moments.

We also definitely need some learning posts!

 

[NH homesteader]

My husband and I have had this argument. I've started to see his side now. If there is a limited number of spaces in a rescue or a limited number of homes, it makes sense for dogs who can be rehabilitated to have those homes.

Dogs who cannot be rehabilitated end up being bounced around, which sadly is worse for them than compassionately ending their suffering. I don't believe that it is fair to call those on either side of the issue names or criticize, as both sides are, in their own way, concerned with the care of animals.