LocoYokel's kindling thread (aka What the ???)

[LocoYokel]

Hello wise rabbit folk. I sure could use some advice. My meat type doe kindled 9 days ago and seemed to be doing great. This is her second litter. She is rather aggressive when she has kits so I haven't done much more than clean and count (7) day 1, peek and a headcount day 3 and 6. Today I really looked and I have one kit that is much smaller and it's little tummy is not so round as should be, it is squirmy tho. There are two other kits 4X it's size, 3 inbetwixt and another smallish one.
She has Gobs of nest material. I was wondering if I could make another nest for the two big kits for the night so the smaller could get more milk. There is no question of holding her, she just isn't that type of gal...
Is there some other type of solution to help this one out? In the past I would have just hoped for the best but now I have found you all here at BYH!!
The doe is a D'ArgentXCheckered Giant and the buck is a Silver Fox. Her last litter also had some huge kits compared to the others in the litter.

 

[HaloRabbits]

I think what you do (if anything) depends on whether or not you think the size issue is due to genetics or milk consumption. More than likely it is a combination of both. For me, at 9 days, I would just leave them. They will be out of the nest box soon and usually the smaller ones start picking up weight then because they can start eating feed.

If you want to do something I think the best option is make a supplemental milk and feed it that so that you know it isn't hungry and it will have more fight in it for when mama jumps into the box. I think the best milk replacement is a mixture of whole goat milk, heavy cream, and kitten milk replacer. Double check me on that though! There is mention of it on the ARBA website, and I have read that is what people have the most success
with (I haven't had to use it myself).

I have held the doe for the smaller one to nurse before but you said that isn't an option, and I would think its too old to foster. Idk if anyone may have experience fostering older kits here or not...

 

[LocoYokel]

I think what you do (if anything) depends on whether or not you think the size issue is due to genetics or milk consumption. More than likely it is a combination of both. For me, at 9 days, I would just leave them. They will be out of the nest box soon and usually the smaller ones start picking up weight then because they can start eating feed.

If you want to do something I think the best option is make a supplemental milk and feed it that so that you know it isn't hungry and it will have more fight in it for when mama jumps into the box. I think the best milk replacement is a mixture of whole goat milk, heavy cream, and kitten milk replacer. Double check me on that though! There is mention of it on the ARBA website, and I have read that is what people have the most success
with (I haven't had to use it myself).

I have held the doe for the smaller one to nurse before but you said that isn't an option, and I would think its too old to foster. Idk if anyone may have experience fostering older kits here or not...

Thank you HaloRabbits. I will check into the supplement. I don't have another doe to foster it on and it has made it this long, gonna hope for the best and Mother Nature will do the rest....

 

[JakeM]

Just to tack on some extra information, I believe does only have 8 teats, so the 2 smaller kits are likely fighting each other for the last teat.

And yes, once they have eyes open and can move around better, they'll chase mom for a meal and eat some pellets and hay and should catch up eventually.

 

[LocoYokel]

Ten days old, eyes not open yet but in the next day or two... sorry if pics are fuzzy, they move so much!
1.Wee one is second from right, you can barely see it. 2. Big n Lil' side by side, they posed! 3. Two littlest center.

They seem to be doing OK again today. Tilda bit me when I took the box out so I probably won't mess with them again for a few days. Usually she just strikes. This was a first for her AND me! yelp...

 

[HaloRabbits]

Oh wow, they are tiny. That is not just milk, they're runty. Awesome colors! Keep us updated.

 

[DutchBunny03]

If you have another doe with its around the same size and age, foster the smaller kits to her. They are a bit small, but don't look starved or unhealthy.

 

[LocoYokel]

Sorry I am behind, we moved the sheep to their new home this weekend.
Sad news, the wee one didn't make it. I also lost one of the mid-sized blacks, it was outside of the box on the wire and with almost freezing temps at night it didn't stand a chance. It seems Tilda was so upset with me that she piddled in the nest so all the kits were spread out: away from the wet but also each other so no body heat shared. I am sure that is why the wee one died, it was small but spry. The black may have just crawled too far or was latched on and drug out.
There was no choice but to clean the nest so I saved as much dry material as I could. After lining the bottom and sides with dry stuff I put that back in with the kits in the center. (Felt like I was making some fancy layered dessert!) Tilda has pulled some more fur to add to it so I hope she is still feeding them. This litter has really put my learning curve to the test...
Tilda was a super mom with her first litter but that was last fall and the nights were not so bitterly cold. There was no need to peek much after that first head count. My checking her box so often this spring has obviously not gone over well with her. Almost all of my rabbit experience has been with proven does, the rules seem to have changed on me (the list is certainly longer) with these junior does!
My next litter is due tomorrow, more on that doe later...
Guess it's a good thing I love to learn because I am getting one heckuva education this spring!

 

[DutchBunny03]

Its hard to decide how often to check nest boxes. You don't want to let dead ones sit in the nest, but you don't want to bother the dam, either. For nights when in gets close to or below freezing, bringing the kits and dam inside is a good idea. I've heard that heatlamps work, too. Good luck on your next litter!

 

[LocoYokel]

...and speaking of that next litter: Ella has 6 so far and I think I interrupted her by counting. Never had a doe kindle in the daytime before, that I know of!
She is a 2 yr old Checkered Giant. When I got her a few months ago she looked like a basketball with ears: SO overweight. She had been a little girl's pet in her past life so I am sure the treats flowed freely! In this life she needs to be a producer so after 3 months of a regular diet I bred my still fat 2 yr old first time doe to a fat 2 yr old first time buck. (Pookie, the buck, is my neighbor's white Flemish Giant. Yes, we were experimenting...) I tried to palpate her but she was too thick so I popped her in with my buck at 2 weeks, which she refused. That was my best guess that she was bred. Now there are at least 6 HUGE kits a day early!

I think since I already pestered her I will leave her alone and do a tally in the morning. She hadn't pulled much fur so I may go put some that she has pulled out on the wire into the nest... but I promise not to look or touch anything else!
Ella in the new hutch, before the nest box: where the nest box sits.

Did a check on Tilda's kits and got to see little peepers open! The 5 that are left are growing leaps and bounds, I swear the runtiest has doubled in size just since Saturday!