Loose mineral..."if it's red, it's dead."

[cmjust0]

So, I found this article interesting. Thought you guys might want to check it out.

I know several goat folks who have had personal dealings with the author...he knows goats.

So...what color is your mineral?

 

[lupinfarm]

interesting. that clears some stuff up for me, i can see how colour doesn't always mean quality or quantity of a mineral. it's like, my orange-aid is orange in colour... but theres no actual oranges in it.

 

[Laney]

Very very good article. Very informative. Thank you for sharing.

Laney

 

[lilhill]

Very good article.

 

[cmjust0]

Yep...I thought it was pretty interesting. Especially the part about copper being in the form of copper oxide versus copper sulfate or some other form of bioavailable copper..

I'm beginning to see the signs of moderate to severe copper deficiency in my own herd (...in the black purebreds, anyway...) and now I know why...loose mineral with +/- 700ppm of copper oxide that goes in one side and out the other.

Also makes sense as to why I personally know some folks who are able to dose their entire herd with the 12.5g Copasure copper oxide wire particle boluses -- the entire bolus, even for 60-70lb kids! -- once every year without killing anybody...extremely low bioavailability.

I love learning stuff.

 

[freemotion]

Can you give us some ideas as to what brand of minerals will have the proper copper so I can harrass the local feed stores into ordering it?

 

[ksalvagno]

When you say "red" does it really look red? Do you have any pictures of what the different minerals look like? I'm assuming the blocks of salt that look kind of red would be bad but I don't use those anyway. Will it say on the label which copper was used?

 

[cmjust0]

When you say "red" does it really look red? Do you have any pictures of what the different minerals look like? I'm assuming the blocks of salt that look kind of red would be bad but I don't use those anyway. Will it say on the label which copper was used?

Every loose mineral mix I've ever seen from TSC and other farm stores is red in color. DuMor brand minerals are red...American Stockman brand minerals are red..

The red color is Iron Oxide (aka rust). When you consider what the article says about Iron (Fe) in the form of Iron Oxide (FeO) being completely unavailable to the animal...and then you see that the entire bag is red...wow.

Now combine that with copper oxide... Did you guys know that some sheep producers -- SHEEP producers -- are bolusing their flock with Copasure to control parasites? I mean, if that doesn't speak to the low bioavailability of copper oxide, I dunno what does.. Copper is a natural anthelmintic, proven to be effective at controlling Haemonchus Contortus, aka barberpole worms..the primary helminths you're judging by FAMACHA anemia scores..

Copper to control worms, Iron to help with anemia..

Just think about what bioavailable iron and copper supplementation could do for your FAMACHA scores..

Can you give us some ideas as to what brand of minerals will have the proper copper so I can harrass the local feed stores into ordering it?

I'm working on something as we speak, though I'm not entirely sure it'll ever be available commercially... Me and a handful of other goatfolk in the area are gonna be doing a little guinea piggin, and the formula is still being tweaked a bit.


In the meantime, I'd probably recommend Sweetlix. They have one called "Meat Maker" for goats. It's a red mineral, but the label reads "..., Iron Oxide (as a coloring agent), ..." and also lists ferrous sulfate, which is used in humans to battle anemia. Just the fact that they made mention of Iron Oxide only being there for color would seem to indicate that they've got their heads screwed on pretty straight.

Sweetlix also contains copper sulfate, and is mixed 2:1 Calcium to Phosphorus (precaution for urinary calculi).




The custom mix guy I'm talking to actually chuckled when I asked whether they used copper oxide or copper sulfate and said they didn't even own a bag of copper oxide. He said they use either copper sulfate or copper chelate -- which I'd never heard of...or both, in some mixes.

They don't mess around, and the best part is...they're local!

But...like I said...if you had to pester your feedstore in the meantime, I'd pester them for Sweetlix. I've heard good things about it and, based on the label, it appears to be a MUCH superior product to most of what's out there.

 

[lilhill]

I use both Sweetlix and Meat Makers and have had good results with them. I've also fed CalfManna to a black doe, along with BoSe injections that was getting the "rusty" look on her legs and she's now gorgeously BLACK. (Is "gorgeously" even a word?)

 

[cmjust0]

I use both Sweetlix and Meat Makers and have had good results with them.

I've heard the same from a few other folks, but I've only recently started really looking into minerals.. I always knew they were important, of course, but mineral -- for a lot of folks -- seems to be one of those things that takes a back burner to grain and hay and worming and so forth..

I basically made sure and got one with copper on the label, set it out, and forgot about it without ever really looking into what I was setting out or how much good it was doing.

As such, I'm beginning to see mineral deficiencies.

I've also fed CalfManna to a black doe, along with BoSe injections that was getting the "rusty" look on her legs and she's now gorgeously BLACK. (Is "gorgeously" even a word?)

See, that's the hard thing about minerals.. Lots of deficiencies tend to manifest themselves in the same ways.

For instance, I hit one of our red-legged black does with copper and BoSe at the same time...she chewed up her copper, so I wasn't sure how much good it did. Before long, though, she was back to black and her tail filled back out. I had no way of knowing whether it was the Selenium or the copper..

Based on what you said, I'd have guessed it may have been the Selenium...BUT...I hit another fishtailed, red-legged black doe with Selenium only and she still has her fishtail and red legs.. I hit her with copper and she chewed it up, too (daggone $1.99 plastic calf balling guns... ).. She perked up, because I'm pretty sure the copper cleared a few barberpoles....but she's still red.

This weekend, though....hehehee....

....

Suffice it to say that I just got a box containing two really nice balling guns I ordered from Valley Vet, and they've all gotta be on the stanchion for hoof trimming anyway, so the new balling guns will get a thorough field test..

The ones who chewed their copper are getting it again, and they by golly won't chew it up this time.. These balling guns have metal shafts and flexible tube heads, so they'll be going to the hilt, plunged, and held until I hear a reluctant "GULP" sound.

Also, everybody who didn't get selenium will get it now, and I'm probably going to FAMACHA everybody and worm as needed. Probably some B-complex for a couple, too, just because.

Should be fun times.