New Livestock Med Laws!!

[misfitmorgan]

Everyone here can have their pros and cons and argue legal vs illegal but i doubt there is one person here who has never used a drug off-label either knowingly or not.

I give my dogs pepto-bismal at times or buffered asprin when my 12yr old dog is in a lot of pain in her joints.....are those off-label uses...definitely doesn't mean i am going to go find the "proper" labeled drugs to give them the few times a year they may need it.

So far i havnt used a feed/water supplement except corid once....i was going to switch to di-methox but it would be off-label..i also apparently can not use Baycox/Toltrazuril even though several people even a few on this forum use it.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

Okay... So does this mean I can't use DiMethox? And that my vet can't prescribe me that legally or other off label meds?

 

[misfitmorgan]

@misfitmorgan Do have a vet that will treat goats and just not make farm calls? Will they work with you at all? Can you take goats to them for a "check up" with the understanding that in an emergency you can call and get meds that are OTC? They don't have to see every animal, just a representation of the "herd" and they don't have to see the animal when it is sick if there is knowledge of the herd.

Yes they will treat goats but wont make a farm call. They will not prescribe anything over the phone, email, etc, they must see the animal every time. They can not diagnosis anything over the phone they told me. We have had a lamb there, and 3 goats there in their office and taken our fecal samples there....they still wont do anything unless we take the animal to them. I even asked the vet so if i have a goat/sheep/pig in labor having a problem and i think i am going to lose them i have to try to load them in my blazer and drive all the way up here and then un-load them and bring them into your office to get them some help? He said no i will come out to the parking lot but if you think they wont make it up here there is no point bringing them anyhow just let them die at the farm.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Okay... So does this mean I can't use DiMethox? And that my vet can't prescribe me that legally or other off label meds?

No....they can still prescribe off-label stuff for you.

 

[Southern by choice]

So i should only have a large number of cattle and my dogs only....?

That's not right that i should be restricted to only a cattle herd because the vets where i live are to money hungry.

That is not what I said. I said PERHAPS the species you desire may not be the best option. .

It is something people need to think about. If there are no vets that will see a goat under any circumstance and/or the closest vet is 3 hrs away then you may want to consider this before hand.
Some livestock vets ( many cattle and horse vets) don't know much about goats and are usually pretty up front about it. They may treat but not be well versed. This is frustrating to a new sheep or goat owner that doesn't have any experience and the overall loss of the animal/s is going to be higher.
Of course the context is in relation to this forum... "back yard herds", which generally is small herd/flock, mostly pets with minimal production.

The flip side is quite frankly there are many that just never want to pay a vet bill and will throw everything at an animal except the kitchen sink... in the end spending more, and half the time the animal dies and in many cases unnecessarily.

 

[babsbag]

Dogs are not a food producing animal so all the ELDU laws don't apply.

You can still use Corid, it isn't on the list.

@Green Acres Farm You can legally use Dimethox if your vet gives you permission. The stuff added to food or water will require a VFD. The injectable only requires permission as it is extra label but allowed. You can still buy the injectable OTC.

Yes, many of us use Baycox, but I for one don't promote it to others unless specifically asked. I also don't use it in adult animals.

 

[babsbag]

No....they can still prescribe off-label stuff for you.

There are some drugs with NO off label use. That is the list I posted earlier. Baytril being one of them.

 

[greybeard]

I really don't understand why the vets should be upset, nothing has really changed for them other than issuing the directive for feed additives.

It is going to cause them to have to document and keep better records, and they can probably expect to begin seeing a larger influx of new customers either at their facility or on-the farm.
By letter and intent of the ruling, FDA is now going to hold vets (as well as retailers and end users) more responsible for what in some cases was previously OTC substances.
I don't know what 'teeth' the FDA has included in the ruling other than threat of audits and warning letters, but I suspect at some point they will be long and sharp if practice indicates non-adherence.

(If I go to town later, I may stop by my local retailer and ask if they have received any official or corporate guidance on how they will verify whether a customer has a prescription for some of the affected medications.)

 

[greybeard]

@misfitmorgan Do have a vet that will treat goats and just not make farm calls? Will they work with you at all? Can you take goats to them for a "check up" with the understanding that in an emergency you can call and get meds that are OTC? They don't have to see every animal, just a representation of the "herd" and they don't have to see the animal when it is sick if there is knowledge of the herd.

Again--this!
This is where the Veterinarian-Client-Patient Relationship, or VCPR comes in to play. Once this trust and knowledge base is established, it will be a lot smoother sailing for each of us, as well as for the vet.

 

[casportpony]

Here is a bunch of info I posted on BYC:
Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

I thought this link was helpful: https://www.beefcattleinstitute.org/changes-antibiotics-regulations/



-Kathy





Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

I read that as "the ionophores (Rumensin, Bovatec, Catalyst), the bambermycins (Gainpro), bacitracin (BMD, Baciferm), and tiamulin (Denegard)" still available, but all other water and feed antibiotics will require a VFD or prescription. All injectables antibiotics, amprolium, and wormers (with the exception of hygromycin B) not affected.



Let me know if I got that wrong.



-Kathy





Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickerdoodle13

Kathy, I have to ask some more questions about that and get back to you. Originally I thought injectables were affected as well but now I'm not 100% sure. I know amprolium will not be affected (I think only chemical coccidiostats will be) and I almost certain wormers will not be affected (though there's a huge resistance problem with those as well, but that's another discussion!).

If I am able to actually find a vet who knows the answer or I read anything different from what you posted, I'll let you know. The first time I really heard a lot about this was at a poultry vet meeting I attended the other day. I knew it was happening but really had no info about it. I did think it was a bit strange that so many small egg companies were all of a sudden looking for vets though!
Thanks, let me know what you find out. Here is a list I found:

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary...ce/JudiciousUseofAntimicrobials/ucm390429.htm



-Kathy





Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

and this:

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/ucm482106.htm

















-Kathy





Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/dont_wait_be_ready_new_antibiotic_rules_for_2017
Are all antibiotics affected?
It is important to note not all antibiotics will be considered VFD drugs (Figure 1). The use of injectable antibiotics will not be affected. At this time, FDA has only moved antibiotics essential to human medicine and being fed to animals to VFD status. Also, as a part of the new FDA changes, water soluble antibiotics, which are important to human medicine, will now require a prescription from a veterinarian. This transition of water soluble drugs will include Aureomycin® Water Soluble Concentrate (Chlortetracycline).

Figure 1. Present listing of in and on feed antibiotics outside of VFD directive.*

Carbadox Ractopamine

Bambermycin Melengestrol

Ionophores (i.e. lasalocid and monensin) Decoquinate

Tiamulin Fenbendazole

Bacitracin Amprolium

*Unless used in combination with a VFD drug.





Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

Check out these TSC links:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/pfizer-animal-health-liquamycin-la-200-100-ml

no comment on needing rx



but the powder says this: "As of January 1, 2017 this item will no longer be carried by Tractor Supply Company due to updated FDA regulations surrounding Veterinary Feed Directive (VFD) drugs. For more information, please click here: http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/ucm071807.htm"

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/oxytetracycline-soluble-powder-6-2-5-oz



-Kathy





Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Animal...Enforcement/GuidanceforIndustry/UCM052660.pdf

2017_VFD_FDA.pdf124k .pdf file