new to calves

[poorboys]

my dh decided to raise a few calves for the frezzer, two are about two months old and we have banded them, the other two are about 3 weeks old, How long do I bottle fed? what shots do they need and when? I do have most medicines here and I do have cdt. just don't know what they need and when?> My two older ones are on grain and have been eating hay. Please help me cause I don't want to raise unhealthy animals. My dh does this to me alot, he'll bring something home and then I've got to figure things out. I am now raising goats and have been for several years, so I do know alot about shots, where to give them and what to look for concerning wormings, loose stools, but calves are a different story for me. any help would be aprreciated, thanks

 

[Mike Fronczak]

As far as shots, everyones view is different, it depends on yours.
I just took the "Quality Beef Assurance Certification", their view was all cattle should be vaccinated, "it is irresponsible not to". But they are set up as "part of a system premis", meaning you are either a "cow-calf" operation (Breeder), a feedlot, a trucker, etc. In that system, Yes it makes sence, they bring in cattle from all different places, conditions, cattle are kept in close contact with each other, fecues, etc, etc. So chances of disease, infection, etc. chaces are high, it makes sence to vacinate, medicate, etc. They also said, there is no reason not to have a squeze shoot, with the highlands horns, unless there are WAAAY different styles than we used it would be a complete waste of money for me, no way in hell would I get my cows to fit through it. Also said all cattle should be de-horned as well, highlands are hard to find truckers willing to move because the horns tear up the truck, etc. We have alway trucked our own, never a broken trailer, no issues what-so-ever because of horns, even though I'm still new to raising cattle (1.5 yrs in now). Yes you need to be careful of the horns, but you should ALWAYS exercise caution when working with 1000 lb animals (horns or not), especially when doing anything they arent accustom to (which stresses them), if they want to injure you they will (horns or not). The bulk of the program is set up for working "within the system", it was an enlightening evening, not what I expected, but non the less educational, I had to read the entire book to find the "section" (paragraph) on closed herds. Makes me happier we raise our own beef, & eggs, The more I learn the more I want to expand what we raise.
The bulk of our highlands came from a closed herd about an hour from us, were never been vacinated, nor have we. But he raised them from birth to slaughter, in pasture rotation continually rarely did they go in a barn even. We have followed his lead. Only new introductions will be replacement bull, or cows as needed or for growth (which would require us purcasing more land), which we will keep seperated (in another pasture) probably 1-2 months. Highlands are also highly resistant to start with.
If you are buying the calves young, bottle feeding to me means young, and growing them to slaughter on your property (closed herd) I would think you wouldn't need to, the only problem is if something is brought in as you add animals, so be careful there. Again it is preference, I eat what we grow & don't want anymore chemicals in it than is absoultly necessary.

 

[greybeard]

Mike, I understand your concerns and it is true lots of people don't vaccinate when they raise their own beef from womb to freezer. The problems come when one buys calves from someone else--ya don't even know for sure if the calves got any maternal antibodies immediately after birth. That's taking a big risk, especially if you have 5-6 calves in a small area like a lot of folks here at BYH do (not all). Anything one gets can run thru the whole bunch in no time and prevention is a lot easier and less expensive than treatment later.

Horns? I hate 'em! I have 2 with horns and they present all kinds of problems--even taking out the personal human risk factor. They injure themselves, get hung up in hay rings, waterers, gates, fences--get more of the feed than the polled animals and the best forage, and imo, polled animals in an all polled herd (no matter the herd size) are more healthy overall.

Poorboys--look for articles written by a good source from your area, as it will be more likely to be tailored to your climate, location, and prevalant disease strains. You're in the Midwest--Univ of Ill has a long history of a good livestock curriculum and there are lots of papers out on the web from them. Most usually have a vaccination schedule.
Here's an example of one from Univ of Arkansas, but I bet you can find one from your state as well.
http://www.uaex.edu/Other_Areas/publications/PDF/FSA-3009.pdf

Understand --that even tho you can give them yourself, because of the costs involved in buying the vaccine, it is sometimes cheaper to just get the vet to do it, as you don't end up with a shelf lifed vaccine that you only use a little out of. I do NOT like the live or modified live vaccines much anymore, but that is subject for a different thread.

Search Craigslist for a used squeeze chute or build yourself a Medina gate. Chutes run (new) about $2300 around here for a good one with a head gate. Medina gates can be bought or built for a small fraction of that cost and work well for calves.
http://grangercattleco.com/medinahinge.html

Mike--here's an article from a Highland forum you might be interested in: (if you haven't seen it already)
http://www.highlandcattleforum.org/index.php?topic=62.0

 

[Mike Fronczak]

Greybeard, thats why I started out saying its about personal preference. And my way is specific to our situation, not common industry practice.
Thanks for the link, lots of good info. As of yet we haven't need a squeeze chute, (knock on wood). I have a hard time spending $ 2500+, for a "just in case" too, it will probably haunt me at some point. I give dewormer by using the grain or block style, I prefer the grain style as I can seperate out each animal & give it to them, then move to seperate pasture, bring in the next one. We castrated (banded) our first steer with out issue this year granted he was only a month old, but it is better to do it young.

 

[greybeard]

You do understand that your's is not a "closed" herd, since you buy replacements from someone else?
And likely as not, that seller does the same thing unless he has a huge herd of different lineage, believes in long lineage line breeding , or has multiple herdsires and retains all his own heifers. The term "closed" means exactly that==nothing in-nothing out. There are very very few true 'closed' herds in this country.

And that, is where problems arise. It takes exactly 1 animal to spread infection thru out an entire herd, especially true in small breeding herds in the case of things like Lepto.

Again--You can build or buy a Medina gate for only a few hundred $, and in the case of calves, you can build one out of just about anything.

 

[Mike Fronczak]

Yes I understand what the term "closed means"
I also understand that few herds, really none can be truly "closed" or inbreading would become an issue.
Part of the reasons I choose Highland cattle is because of their disease resitance, I reseached the breed pretty throughly. They are not "conventional cattle" truly nothing (or not much) of them fits into the "system of the way cattle are currently raised. From the horns that scare people, double thick coat that provides the cold hardiness with low fat levels, the slow growth rates (which aren't acceptable to many), the list goes on.
Since I have only been raising cattle for a year & a half, I have not had to "buy replacements". We bought our intial 3 bred cows with a steer, then bought 2 more heifers & a bull (2 groups total). As of now we have 8 head here, 3 mature cows, a bull (not related to any), 2 steers (one 1.5 year old, one 6mo or so), and 2 heifers. The two heifers we bought with the bull are no longer in our herd, we had two heifers and a bull calf (now steer) this year (which are included in the count). As it stands we will be capable to produce 5 calves a year (for butchering) with out any new intrductions. We only have 9 acres here, so breeding the any of bulls' heifer calves (to grow our herd) isn't really an option, unless we buy more land. Because of the slow growth rates we need to operate on a 2.5-3 year cycle, meaning we will have 16 or so head here, probably more than we should, but they will be at various stages of development, so far the pastures are doing OK, we have one more to put in, & I monitor them closely.
With that being said we don't have to buy "replacement" animials unless we;
1. buy more land
2. decided to breed our future calves, which would be related to our bull
3. need to replace our bull, he is only 3 now when we retire him we can phase out our mature cows with ones related to him.

The guy we bought our intial 3 cows from had over 70 head at one point , all raised in this fashion, before raising the Highlands he was a dairy farmer, so I trust his judgement & advise. This was the way he did it for years, why change what works & keeps the consumed chemicals down.
We do our best to limit exposure to maintain a closed environment, not buying animals to "finish", not showing (ie 4H), etc. If those things changed, then I may have to rethink the vaccination thought process.

 

[Cricket]

Hi, Poorboys, I usually wean my dairy steers at 2 months. Start giving them calf starter (grain) free choice and a little really nice hay. You can start cutting back on their milk as they eat more food. I've had some stubborn calves who I fed milk a little longer. I've read there's some debate on whether or not to give hay to calves still getting milk, but seeing as how they end up eating sawdust, etc, otherwise . . . !

I vaccinate for rabies in spring, as it is an issue in my area. I do minimal vaccinating on all of my animals, so can't help you there. Have fun!

 

[greybeard]

Yes I understand what the term "closed means"
I also understand that few herds, really none can be truly "closed" or inbreading would become an issue.
Part of the reasons I choose Highland cattle is because of their disease resitance, I reseached the breed pretty throughly. They are not "conventional cattle" truly nothing (or not much) of them fits into the "system of the way cattle are currently raised. From the horns that scare people, double thick coat that provides the cold hardiness with low fat levels, the slow growth rates (which aren't acceptable to many), the list goes on.

Not as purebred, but they offer a lot to a good crossbreeding program, so don't be too quick to say they aren't 'conventional". They also have a good easy calving rep, with relatively low BWs. Lots of vigor available if a breeder needs something that has that much hair. (the horns can be dealt with by either using a homo polled bull or by the usual 'mechanical' method.)
Cattle breeding is a fluid in motion--always evolving, using the best traits of any one breed to make another better. Right now--it may be that Highlands aren't exactly the "Breed of the week", but that can change any time as crossbreeders continue to look for that hybrid combo that makes the best carcass or makes the best calves for 2 & 3ways.

 

[poorboys]

THANKS for the info, yes it will be a closed herd, we are just raising for the meat end of it, and to share with family, the ones that are two months are down to one bottle and seem to be doing good, I just did'nt know if they needed a cdt shot as my goats all do. we just plan on having two or three each year to put in frezzer, and share with family. we buy from local farms,

 

[Mike Fronczak]

Yes I understand what the term "closed means"
I also understand that few herds, really none can be truly "closed" or inbreading would become an issue.
Part of the reasons I choose Highland cattle is because of their disease resitance, I reseached the breed pretty throughly. They are not "conventional cattle" truly nothing (or not much) of them fits into the "system of the way cattle are currently raised. From the horns that scare people, double thick coat that provides the cold hardiness with low fat levels, the slow growth rates (which aren't acceptable to many), the list goes on.

Not as purebred, but they offer a lot to a good crossbreeding program, so don't be too quick to say they aren't 'conventional". They also have a good easy calving rep, with relatively low BWs. Lots of vigor available if a breeder needs something that has that much hair. (the horns can be dealt with by either using a homo polled bull or by the usual 'mechanical' method.)
Cattle breeding is a fluid in motion--always evolving, using the best traits of any one breed to make another better. Right now--it may be that Highlands aren't exactly the "Breed of the week", but that can change any time as crossbreeders continue to look for that hybrid combo that makes the best carcass or makes the best calves for 2 & 3ways.

Our calves that were born this year are 1/2 angus, the guy we bought the bred cows from when intially liquidating his herd his Highland bull went fast (one of the first animals sold he said), as the season got on he wanted to make sure the cows were bred, so he borrowed his neighbors black angus bull. These calve seem to grow much faster (from the angus I assume) than the pure Highland steer we bought from him, the still have the super thick coat, to early to tell about horns. Their coats were my only concern, as they stay outside all winter (they have run ins, but generally don't utilize other than to get out of the sun), because their coats came in like they did, I'm planning to keep & breed the two heifers. They will be bred to our Highland bull, still grass/hay fed. My thought is their calves will grow slightly faster (1/4 angus at that point), just can't market the meat as "Highland"
I have also noticed a bunch of Highald bulls (at least at first appearence from the horns) mixed in with "conventional" cattle, so yes their probably is some crossing going on. On the bull note too, when we decided to get one (bull), a relative tried to discourage me, told me all these horror stories, etc about bulls. I explained to him, these were not Highland cattle he was talking about, but dairy mainly, which I have no doubt are different. Before getting the Highlands we had finished 2 Jersy steers...I sworn never again, grain 2X a dy, broken fences, one had this crazy look in this eye all the time, I would never turn my back on him, & I kept the kids at a distance. Was glad to see them go that fall. Our bull has completly lived up to the Highland reputation, he is so melow, easy going, go with the flow. Of all our cattle I would say he is the least agressive, pushy, easist to work with, etc. If most of the bulls act like ours it makes sence why there were so many out at the different farms I saw. I'm hopeful his personality carries over to his offspring. I exercise caution as you should when working with any animal, but I do that with all our cattle, no matter the sex they can injure you.