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[Deecarter]

I am so glad you have got help in abundance. I haven’t commented past page one because I haven’t had to deal with these type problems. The experts took over and have given excellent advice. I’ve kept up with this thread and couldn’t be happier with the help you have received. Please stop beating up on yourself. There is no way to take a can opener to your head, and pour in everything you need to know about goats. By reaching out and asking for help you already did more than many people with animals. The people here are awesome.

Yes they are!

 

[Deecarter]

I am not a goat person..... BUT.... be careful of fescue hay. It is not very palatable.... most all of it also has an "endophyte fungus" that is common to varieties like the old Kentucky 31 fescue.... It can cause breeding problems in cattle and some abortions. It also is starchy and the starch will turn to "sugar" after the first frost and makes it much more palatable for animals grazing it. If you have a choice, try to stay away from fescue hay unless it is a variety like "MaxQ" which is a novel endophyte free fescue. Fescue is popular here in Va and it is good in rotational grazing in the fall.... works good for running steers on but.....personally I hate fescue. Orchard grass, timothy, and other southern grasses are preferred. I think that bermuda grass and Bahia? I am not real familar with far south grasses. I doubt you will get timothy down there, it likes colder temps to grow and produce. Not a warm weather grass/hay.

I agree totally. I am trying to find someone within a reasonable drive that sells something like orchard plus a mix of grasses, or coastal bermuda or something mixes with alfalfa but it's difficult here because I am basically in a metro area. I'm still looking though.

 

[Deecarter]

Ok. This is probably a dumb question but I am wondering if I give the three day ivermectin and then start the safeguard and continue it for five days or do I do them simultaneously? This is a vigorous treatment for meningeal worms.

 

[rachels.haven]

You need someone more experienced than me to answer this 100% sure, but I know for everything else you give them together. (so I am mostly unhelpful)

 

[Deecarter]

You need someone more experienced than me to answer this 100% sure, but I know for everything else you give them together. (so I am mostly unhelpful)

Thanks for making me feel not so dumb asking a dumb question. I’ve already treated the young doe and what I read said I should assume the others have been exposed so do a preventative treatment using ivermectin in liquid form for 3 days followed by 5 days of sage guard.

 

[rachels.haven]

You're not dumb. It's a lot of wormer! Also, your learning curve is steeper than most. Meningeal worm is no joke and most don't ever have to deal with it.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Ok. This is probably a dumb question but I am wondering if I give the three day ivermectin and then start the safeguard and continue it for five days or do I do them simultaneously? This is a vigorous treatment for meningeal worms.

What is at actual dose of both you are giving? We give our dewormers together and we give all 3 classes(do not do this in the south).

Our doses for goats are safeguard 4.6ml per 100lbs, ivomec drench 24ml/100lbs, and rumatel 45 grams per 100lbs. Ivomec is off-label for goats, our vet ok'ed it. That is all given back to back orally one dose.

 

[misfitmorgan]

No. The other goats aren't showing that behavior, but I DID think about fleas since we have the two dogs, but I give both dogs Revolution once a month from the vet for fleas, ticks and heart worms, so I don't think it's fleas. The flies are bothering everyone this time of year. I have some spray I need to apply that for them. I will check out those sites. I recognize one; Turner Feed. I used to buy there all the time. It's family owned and been there a long time and it's just so sad to me that when Tractor Supply came in, I would notice their inventory getting smaller and smaller. I get everything I can from there. They are still in business but I see signs they may not be for long, and I really hate that sort of thing. I checked the ingredients of my loose mineral block (it's not really a block, but a compressed mineral feed) and the Sweetlix has the same minerals only in larger amounts, so it would probably be better don't you think? I have read that Vitamin E is abundant in green grasses and green leaves, and I checked the label for the goat sweet feed I am using and the recommended feeding should supply all the selenium and copper they need, I would think, especially adding in something they will eat mineral supplement wise, anyway. I am going to give the Bo-Se by using Replamin and the copper bolus just to be on the safe side, and I'm looking for some good hay locally. I have located 2 in nearby carroll county that is mostly fescue and I'm going to use the round bales (much easier). I feel really silly after reading the label on the alfalfa pellets and thinking I had to give that much to each goat. I had no idea that was just in case they were confined and didn't have access to pasture or hay. I feel really dumb, now! I really wish I could fence off a couple more areas but I can't afford to do that right now. I'm just more and more convinced it is meningeal worms because we have so many slugs and snails on our property it is ridiculous, but the deer and their symptoms. I was reading on the prevention of meningeal worms and I will have to give them all the high dosages of safeguard and ivermectin once a month during the slug and snail season which I'm not sure when that is here. I guess more reading and learning. I have been very, very stressed out about this. I guess I feel incompetent because I know so little, but boy am I learning fast. I really appreciate you taking me under your wing and talking to me about all this. It has really helped and I will post an update when I get through all the blood work and treatments. THANK YOU!

Just keep supporting the local places, best thing to do.

Loose mineral is always better then anything in a block form. I mean think about it, would you rather eat two chewy gummi daily vitamins every day or have someone hand you a giant lollipop and tell you to lick the thing for 10-15mins per day to get your daily vitamins? I mean how long are you going to keep up that routine lol.

Yes vitamin E is in green things but decays quickly in stored feed stuff, like hay or grains.

To help things be more clear for any future conversations you have or issues you have, I just want to mention. Bo-Se is a brand of injectable selenium, so you can not give Bo-Se by giving Replamin, you are giving selenium by giving Replamin. We all understand what you mean in this post because of the past pages of the thread but in the future if you said "I gave them a dose of Bo-Se and still have this issue" But actually you ment a dose of Replamin, its a very different thing. Bo-Se = strong dose of selenium injected, Replamin = low dose of selenium orally.

I saw some orchard grass/timothy hay about 25mins west of you for sale on your craigslist if I recall correctly.

I very much understand money constraints for fencing. We have had to wait 3yrs to start making our at home pasture for various reasons. No one on here is rich and we all know it, the inforstructure is so expensive.

Don't get down on yourself. We all knew NOTHING when we started!! My knowledge of any livestock was they eat grass in warm months hay in cold months and need water....thats it. I knew zero on vaccines, minerals, dewormer, diseases, anything else.

 

[Deecarter]

What is at actual dose of both you are giving? We give our dewormers together and we give all 3 classes(do not do this in the south).

Our doses for goats are safeguard 4.6ml per 100lbs, ivomec drench 24ml/100lbs, and rumatel 45 grams per 100lbs. Ivomec is off-label for goats, our vet ok'ed it. That is all given back to back orally one dose.

I am giving 1% ivermectin (liquid) all of them 1 cc per 55 pounds for 3 days and 4.6 cc per 100 pounds of safeguard for 5 days. I decided to give the ivermectin in the morning and safe guard in the evening. The only exception to this is the one who is showing the symptoms of meningeal worms. I am giving her 10 x the recommended dosage of the safeguard. The article I read says that using 1% ivermectin preventative lay or to treat pre-neurological symptoms is effective.

 

[Deecarter]

Just keep supporting the local places, best thing to do.

Loose mineral is always better then anything in a block form. I mean think about it, would you rather eat two chewy gummi daily vitamins every day or have someone hand you a giant lollipop and tell you to lick the thing for 10-15mins per day to get your daily vitamins? I mean how long are you going to keep up that routine lol.

Yes vitamin E is in green things but decays quickly in stored feed stuff, like hay or grains.

To help things be more clear for any future conversations you have or issues you have, I just want to mention. Bo-Se is a brand of injectable selenium, so you can not give Bo-Se by giving Replamin, you are giving selenium by giving Replamin. We all understand what you mean in this post because of the past pages of the thread but in the future if you said "I gave them a dose of Bo-Se and still have this issue" But actually you ment a dose of Replamin, its a very different thing. Bo-Se = strong dose of selenium injected, Replamin = low dose of selenium orally.

I saw some orchard grass/timothy hay about 25mins west of you for sale on your craigslist if I recall correctly.

I very much understand money constraints for fencing. We have had to wait 3yrs to start making our at home pasture for various reasons. No one on here is rich and we all know it, the inforstructure is so expensive.

Don't get down on yourself. We all knew NOTHING when we started!! My knowledge of any livestock was they eat grass in warm months hay in cold months and need water....thats it. I knew zero on vaccines, minerals, dewormer, diseases, anything else.

You’re last comment has me laughing. Thanks! Ah, and I’m glad you cleared that up about the Replamin. I thought that was only vitamin E. We’ll, I take consolation in the fact that all my goats are alive and this has been a good education.