New to the group! Hello from Nevada!

[Latestarter]

Greetings and welcome to BYH. Good to have you here with us. Since you're only on an acre of land, LGD's might be a bit of overkill (IMHO) and your first line of defense for all of your animals should be good fencing. Mostly, I expect you'll have your animals up close to your home and locked up securely at night, which would work best & deter most attacks. Also, since you have rotties which I expect will be marking the boundaries of the property, along with their barking and presence should keep most larger predators well clear. You might consider a dual purpose goat such as a Kinder (Pygmy/Nubian cross) which is smaller than a full sized standard goat (eats less), is a decent milk producer (like a full sized Nubian), while carrying a heavier frame for meat. There are other crosses out there as well.

Anyway, looking forward to following your story. Hope you'll start a journal so we can keep up on your journey(s).
https://www.backyardherds.com/forums/members-backyardherds-journals.18/

 

[Baymule]

Welcome from Texas. I second Latestarter on building a good fence!

 

[BoboFarm]

Hi @Latestarter & @Baymule! Thank you for the welcome. I've been thinking about a LGD and I may be leaning away from one. I spoke with my husband about it over the weekend. He grew up on the other side of the valley from where we are now. They kept goats, horses and poultry and never had a problem with the big predators. They had rotties too. Our animals will all be locked up tight in their respective spaces at night. We are planning to fence our property with non climb fencing. There are already t-posts there with only a few needing to be replaced. I just spoke with a gal that lives close and she said there are several bobcats that frequent the area and cougar tracks have been spotted on the land behind us. Skunks and raccoons have not been an issue for her but weasels have. I hadn't even thought of those nasty guys! The dogs have sufficiently marked around the property so I hope that's enough of a deterrent.

@Latestarter Thanks for the suggestions for a goat breed. We've never eaten goat meat before. I do like lamb but hubby is not a huge fan. I'm not sure if it's the same. We may just be looking for a milking breed. We do feed our dogs raw so I'm sure they wouldn't mind goat if we don't like it I'll have to look into starting a journal. I enjoy talking about our different projects so it may be fun

 

[Devonviolet]

Hi Patricia.

It's so nice to have you join us! You have come to the right place to learn about livestock, chickens and such (rabbits and bees), we have lots of caring knowledgable folks, who love to help others succeed on their homesteads.

I came here when we first bought our 5 acres 3 years ago, and have learned SO much! Some from experience and lots from my new found friends.
We now have 3 LaMancha dairy does, 2 Maremma LGDs, 12 chickens, 2 beautiful Pomeranian (Gray Saddleback) geese, a cranky turkey and 24 ducks!!! I started out with chickens, with plans to build my flock with hardy heritage breeds, and after adding a few Pekin ducks to a chicken order, I was hooked on ducks. Then I added some Muscovy ducks and the Khaki Cambells and geese came last Summer. Now I am in love with my ducks and geese, and will be gradually butchering unproductive chickens and replace them with more ducks!

Before moving here, to East Texas, I did a lot of research on raising farm animals. Everything I saw told me I definitely wanted at least 2 LGDs. Generally, one is more of a patroller of the fence line and one stays back with the livestock, to protect them from predators sneaking around from behind. Our two are a really good example of that in action.

When I was doing my research, I saw a video of shepherds watching their flock in the Abruzzi mountains of Italy, which is where both of my dog's grandfathers came from. In that video, during the night, wolves made a ruckus, in the distance and the Maremma LGDs ran to protect their flock. In the mean time other members of the wolf pack went around to where the bulk of the flock was, and started killing them one by one.

After several sheep had been killed the LGDs caught on and ran back to save the rest of the flock. Had it not been for the LGDs, the shepherd would have lost their entire flock of sheep.

Moral of the story: Many losses, of livestock occur during the night when farm dogs and humans are tucked in safe and warm. LGDs are out 24/7, and become very protective of their livestock. In addition to our goats, our LGDs protect our birds, even though there is a fence keeping the dogs & birds separate. Predators don't dare come near, when they hear the dogs barking, so the birds are safe as well.

Yes, our birds are locked up at night, but the dogs are given access to the duck/chicken yard at night, so the predators don't think they can try to get into the coop and run. It has happened to people who don't have LGDs. Many times, during the night, we hear the dogs barking, to scare off predators. By morning they are worn out, from protecting their goats all night, and when they know we are up and about, they finally lay down and go to sleep.

I hear about homesteaders losing birds all the time, especially to Hawks and owls. In the 3 years we have been doing this, we haven't lost one bird to a predator. In fact, as many LGD owners will tell you, our Violet "guards the sky". When a hawk or vulture flies overhead, Violet sees them and starts barking (at the sky) to scare them off. They always fly away, not knowing that there is a fence between Violet and the birds. GOOD GIRL!!!

As far as your sage brush, I would think goats could and would eat it, but they would also need hay and supplemental feed. If it was me, I would buy some native perennial grasses, that do well in sandy soil, and broadcast it over my land, prior to a wet spell, so it would have a chance to sprout and grow. Your county extension agent might be a good place to learn which seeds to buy and how to get it established.

Once again, welcome!

 

[BoboFarm]

Hi @Devonviolet

I'm already learning so much being on here! I'm having a blast if not getting in trouble thinking about all of the possibilities Because I work full time and have two young kids we're going to wait a bit on the goats and probably not do the LGDs. The chickens and turkeys will be locked up at night in their coop. They will have covered runs and we will dig down about two feet around the runs and bury hardware cloth. They'll free range when we're out. The rabbits will be in their shed at all times. I wish we had more land to warrant getting a LGD but I guess we'll see what we need when we get there.

 

[Latestarter]

Just as an aside, rather than all the work of digging down 2' to bury hardware cloth, just lay it on the ground like an "apron" around the coop and run. Any animal trying to dig in is going to be right up against the vertical fencing and none will think to back up 2' to start digging. Grass will grow right up through it over time if you're worried about mowing over it.

 

[BoboFarm]

Great idea, @Latestarter! Do you think 2' around will be sufficient?

 

[Devonviolet]

I wish we had more land to warrant getting a LGD but I guess we'll see what we need when we get there.

While we have a total of 5 acres, we are currently only using about 1 to 1–1/2 acres, since we still need to put in some no climb, woven wire fencing. I feel, with the number of coyotes and other predators we have around here, that having 2 LGDs is well warranted. Most LGD experts recommend having 2 dogs, so they can back each other up if there,is a confrontation with a predator.

I think you will find that many of the members, here on BYH, have LGDs. With your property being backed up to Federal land, your likelihood of a high, multiple predator load are pretty good. So, you may well find, when you get there, that you will do well to get a couple of LGDs.

 

[BoboFarm]

It does make sense but then again, with two intact, dominant rotties, I don't know if I could have LGDs. I imagine they would need to be dominant in order to be protective and my current dogs won't tolerate another dominant dog on their territory. I'm also not a huge fan of barky dogs and, correct me if I'm wrong, that's the point of LGDs, right? To warn predators with barking? My dogs give a warning bark if they're outside and see something that warrants attention. Then they watch and wait to see if further action is needed. But they are primarily indoor carpet warmers so other that marking their territory when we let them out to go to the bathroom and following us around while doing outdoor chores, they stay inside. I really don't like dogs that bark at every little sound. I've worked with GSDs quite a bit and good heavens do they bark. They are definitely not the dog for me! Are LGDs the same? What sort of training do LGDs need? I don't think I want a dog that's been hanging out in the filth all day coming in my house. Are LGDs out 24/7 or do they need house privileges? Are there LGDs that can comfortably handle temps over 100 and as low as the teens? We regularly get 80+ mph winds. Can they handle that? Sorry for the brain diarrhea. I had more questions than I thought

 

[babsbag]

Waiting on the LGD is probably a really good idea as it sounds like your birds will be safe. My LGDs do guard the sky too.

Not all LGDs are dominant, I have 4. My oldest female gets along with everybody, including my house dogs. My male gets along with the other LGDs but not the house dogs. The third...Mia...gets along with Mia. And the last one, Alondra gets along with everyone...most of the time. My house dogs never go in the goat pen so I honestly don't know what the LGDs would do about that. And none of my bark unless there is a reason to bark and for that I am grateful and I would say that it isn't the norm. They can bark...a lot. My dogs stay out 24/7. I bring my females in when they are in heat if I don't want puppies. I live in No. CA and it gets well over 100 here in the summer and the dogs do ok. I have one long haired, and the others are short haired. I have a sprinkler on a timer that waters a spot for them for 1 minute every hour, it gives them a cool spot, which they do use. They love the cold so that is not a problem and I think that wind only bothers us.

When you get the goats you might want to revisit the idea of a dog. I used to worry about my goats all day long while I was at work. My boss told me that coyotes attacked her sheep in broad daylight and that made me worry even more. I have good fences, with hot wire, but I was still worried. And nights were horrible, I listened and heard every noise. I got my first dog and I could sleep, it was wonderful. As far as training, a lot depends on the dog. Puppies sometimes want to play with stock which is never allowed and other pups never play. I have one...Mia...that was my challenge, the others pretty much raised and trained themselves. Mia was 8 months old before I could trust her not to chase my goats. A long lead, lots of time with them, and a loud NO works well. Of course the basic dog training is helpful...down, sit, stay, etc. And teaching them to get in the car or truck is good too. LGDs are independent thinkers, so different than my Border Collies, and harder to train. It is said that "come" is a suggestion for an LGD, not a command.

Sometimes you can find an adult LGD that needs a new home, that can sometimes be easier than a pup. Puppies and birds can be a difficult and sometimes costly experience, but it can be done. (usually).