Nutrition and condition discussion

[TheMixedBag]

The molasses comes premixed in it, and she wants none of it unless it's mostly something else.

The only real thing I've noticed getting better on her is the sides of her spine are a bit less noticeable and her ribs a bit less visible.

 

[Ariel301]

Someone requested I post photos of this doe here. I rescued her from an animal hoarder last year, but we were not able to save her. This is definitely an underconditioned doe! This photo was taken two days before she kidded. This was a big tall LaMancha cross doe, she should have been about 150 pounds when not pregnant, but here at 4 1/2 months pregnant (she kidded prematurely) she was about 80 pounds. She went down later the day this was taken and did not get up again until a few days later, during which time she was fed nothing but grain because she would not eat anything else.

Here's my chronically thin doe, Gracee. I think she may have been a cocci baby, she's on the small side and always skinny and anemic, despite proper feeding. She's a milk machine though, she gives me 3/4 of a gallon a day right now and it's so creamy that the milk actually separates like cow's milk if I leave it in the fridge a few days, I can't do that with any of my other goats. This is in her winter coat, and 4 weeks before kidding. Shaved, you can count every bone in her body.

This goat is eating about half the food Gracee eats. She's in what I would consider good condition for a doe producing a gallon a day, and at 10 years old. She's not overweight, but not too thin either. She gets all the hay she wants and only a handful of grain at milking time, she's a really easy keeper.

 

[TheMixedBag]

I am pretty sure Jenny wasn't a cocci baby (though with as short as she is, it's possible I guess), but with the way she handles her weight, couldn't it be possible that she'll be fine being thin? I mean, obviously right now she's not in acceptable condition, but I'm pretty sure now that she's only feeding 2 kids again, the weight should be coming back more easily. She is still only 2 weeks fresh, so I'm going to give her more time to see how she does with the Calf Manna, but I'm not going to expect her to ever be in "good condition" (at least not to anyone else).

Also, I have heard that kids are a good indication of a doe's health, and if that's the case, there is nothing wrong with her. They gotta be 20 lb by now...

 

[freemotion]

Also, I have heard that kids are a good indication of a doe's health, and if that's the case, there is nothing wrong with her. They gotta be 20 lb by now...

True up to a point....the babies of any species will be favored over the mother during gestation, and the mother will end up depleted, sometimes seriously, in favor of healthy babies. But there can still be an invisible (to most people) impact of the deficiency during gestation. For example, in humans, crooked, crowed teeth are not in one's dna. They are a result of nutritional deficiency in the mother during pregnancy, and are epidemic today because of our ridiculous lack of honest nutrition education and lack of nutrients in monocropped and gmo foods.

I still suggest that you find a source of fresh produce to supplement her with....local grocery or restaurant that may toss older produce or kitchen waste, but particularly root veggies like carrots, beets, rutabagas, turnips. Along with all the other things you are doing. You won't have to do this forever, but it will give her a HUGE boost. You could even get a 25-50 lb bag of carrots, first quality, through a restaurant that you frequent if you explain your situation. They may put a bag in their order for you. Pay in advance, though, so make them secure that you will pick it up.

 

[Ariel301]

Also, I have heard that kids are a good indication of a doe's health, and if that's the case, there is nothing wrong with her. They gotta be 20 lb by now...

True up to a point....the babies of any species will be favored over the mother during gestation, and the mother will end up depleted, sometimes seriously, in favor of healthy babies. But there can still be an invisible (to most people) impact of the deficiency during gestation. For example, in humans, crooked, crowed teeth are not in one's dna. They are a result of nutritional deficiency in the mother during pregnancy, and are epidemic today because of our ridiculous lack of honest nutrition education and lack of nutrients in monocropped and gmo foods.

I still suggest that you find a source of fresh produce to supplement her with....local grocery or restaurant that may toss older produce or kitchen waste, but particularly root veggies like carrots, beets, rutabagas, turnips. Along with all the other things you are doing. You won't have to do this forever, but it will give her a HUGE boost. You could even get a 25-50 lb bag of carrots, first quality, through a restaurant that you frequent if you explain your situation. They may put a bag in their order for you. Pay in advance, though, so make them secure that you will pick it up.

I just found a source of restaurant veggies and I'm going to try this with Gracee. We just found out that my husband's friend's wife works at a salad bar type restaurant, and she is going to start getting us their food scraps to feed to the animals. Gracee is looking awful right now, and she's limping in both back legs now instead of just the one she has always had problems with. :/ I put her in a pen where she doesn't have to compete with anyone for anything. She is stumbling when she tries to jump on the milk stand and her milk production is dropping some. Poor girl, I'm afraid she's about at the end. How much of the veggies would you recommend for a full size goat? Would it be ok to start her gradually and get to where she can just eat whatever she wants? I'm doing that now with alfalfa pellets and grain, she's got it in front of her at all times to eat as much as she wants.

 

[freemotion]

If she has any fresh food available right now, you can start with more, but I start with about a cup twice a day and go up from there. With her, I think I'd feed a cupful up to 4-5 times if you can space it out. I increase it a little at a time for a few days, maybe get up to two cups per feeding over 3-4 days, then up to 3 cups after a week or so. Then level off a bit to watch her poo. Sometimes it takes a couple of days to show up in the poo. Back off a bit at the first sign of clumpiness. Add probios if you can during the first few days or first couple of weeks to help. A little in each feeding, not necessarily a "full dose."

A spoonful of live, homemade sauerkraut will do, too. It is cheap and easy to make and for this purpose is ready in three days. It gets better over a few weeks for people, the taste improves, but goats aren't so fussy! To emphasize how easy it is to digest, even a shred of cabbage in a salad will make me very, very sick. I can eat bowls of my homemade sauerkraut. I don't, cuz I don't really like it, but I could! I use it as a digestive aid and source of natural vitamin C for me. Gets rid of GERD, too, in many people as long as the diet is cleaned up, too.

Lots of instructions over on the sister site, www.sufficientself.com.

 

[Ariel301]

Interesting about the sauerkraut and GERD, wonder if it will work for me. I've got to take heartburn medicine every day and I still get heartburn a couple of days a week despite the medicine and good diet...I'll have to give it a try, even though I don't like sauerkraut.

 

[freemotion]

For people and GERD, you need to eliminate white flour and sugary stuff (esp liquids) and decrease starches, including starchy veggies. Increase high fiber veggies. Eat your meat, dairy, and eggs as usual. Unless there is some type of injury to the valves, you can see big results in as little as a week.

 

[TheMixedBag]

I know this week won't be good for Jenny....(goats shaved to the skin don't tend to like cold wet weather it seems....I do have a hoodie on her though!)however, I've taken to milking her in the mornings without separating the kids and feeding her a half a scoop of calf manna and what she will eat of the alfalfa pellets, just to make sure she actually eats what she needs to.

I'm still mixing a bucket for her every morning and letting her eat off of it throughout the day, but I'm going to try to separate it out so she gets fed twice a day. This morning's bucket was a single scoop of pellets, a half a scoop calf manna, half scoop beet pulp and a quarter scoop dairy ration, plus what she got on the stand. Soon as it warms up, I'm hoping to see at least some improvement, so maybe I don't have to dry her off this year.

 

[Ariel301]

For people and GERD, you need to eliminate white flour and sugary stuff (esp liquids) and decrease starches, including starchy veggies. Increase high fiber veggies. Eat your meat, dairy, and eggs as usual. Unless there is some type of injury to the valves, you can see big results in as little as a week.

We're already going that route. No white flour (we buy organic whole wheat and grind our own flour) and we avoid white sugar, we use honey mostly. I eat a lot of dairy and eggs, but we don't eat much meat, maybe once a week or so, we mostly have veggie meals. I'm also doing organic raw cold-pressed coconut oil, and WOW does it give me energy! I've got a birth defect in the top of my stomach that makes the acid come back up, I have found that the things that really bother me are some sodas (coke and pepsi, I can have a little of any other but those two even a sip gives me heartburn) and eating too much at once. I can eat spicy foods no problem. I've got a whole mess of problems that are starting to clear up finally after two years of eating extremely healthy.

On the goat side of things, Gracee is thinking she is getting super spoiled in her own little house eating tons of grain and alfalfa pellets. She's just laying around with a full stomach and a big goaty grin.