One Fine Acre - 2023 4H Steer Project Update

[Southern by choice]

North Carolina set a new annual rainfall record this year. Broke the old record set in 1996 today, over 59 inches.
We've gotten over 44 inches since August 1st.

And it just went up again.

How are you guys doing? My friend that lives close to you is faring pretty good.
It is so bad here she offered to take a herd of goats up to her place til we can get through this.

 

[Baymule]

As much as I complain about the white sugar sand we have, times like this makes me sooooo happy we have it instead of clay. I am sorry for the problems and mud that y'all are having to deal with. At our old place, there were times that our horses did not even have a dry place to stand.

 

[OneFineAcre]

We are doing OK. Barns are dry. The high traffic areas are muddy and tore up pretty badly. I'm happy that I did't cut the pasture areas short at the end of summer. I left a few weeks growth so it's faring pretty well.

We have another issue with Maurine's folks place and the cows. The guy that farms the fields around their place. The cows were getting out and eating his soybeans. He of course wants to be paid. No argument with that. But, the fact of the matter is he has not been able to pick the beans and still can't No way you can get a combine out there. He won't say what how much he wants, but told Maurine's sister today that something needs to be resolved by next week. Hard to work it out when he won't quote a figure. Soybeans are selling at an all time low and yields in NC are obviously way off due to weather.
I told Maurine that I think he's trying to double dip. Turn it in on crop insurance and get them to pay him too.

 

[Southern by choice]

I think you're right.
He has probably already qualified and will get paid.

 

[greybeard]

Soybeans are selling at an all time low and yields in NC are obviously way off due to weather.

Pay him lb for lb in cow. Beef prices are pretty close to an all time low too.

It depends what kind of 'crop insurance' he bought, assuming he did in fact buy any at all, and not all soybean acreage is insurable.
One kind covers loss due to wind and hail.
Another is called Multi-peril crop insurance (MPCI) and it covers loss due to several different causes.
general destructive weather
flood
insect damage
fire
drought
disease

Still another kind which most people think of, protects against low prices and low yields. Crop Revenue Insurance. For this to pay, the crop has to be harvested and it's only after it's delivered to the bin that a value is placed on it, and "the amount that an insurer will pay reflects how much lower a year’s revenues are compared to previous years’ earnings."
No harvest...no paid claim/no check in the mail.


None of them pay 100% of the value that the futures market estimated that particular month's crop would be worth.

In all cases, any part of the soybean crop that can't be marketed (or harvested) still belongs to the farmer and he can do what he wants with it AFTER performing all due diligence in finding an alternative market or use for the soybeans.*

*IF the farmer had a policy that includes a ZMF (Zero Market Value) clause then there are strict guidelines as to what the failed crop can be used for. It usually (but not always) requires the entire covered crop acreage be destroyed and won't pay off if anyone derives any benefit from the failed crop, and that includes using it for grazing.


I do understand the mindset about him double dipping, but consider this:
1. Crop insurance isn't free. The farmer had to pay for it.
2. It's still his soybean crop regardless of whether he was/will be paid a claim.
3. It presumably wasn't his fence that didn't hold the cows and I presume NC has a stock law (It isn't open range) meaning he had no obligation to fence other people's livestock out of his soybean fields.
4. Someone's cows, got to eat for free unless due compensation for that feed (the soybeans) is paid to the farmer.

The question isn't only what the crop may have been worth had he been able to get combines in, but what was the feed value to the encroaching cows worth?

There are few if any free rides in this world....someone somewhere paid/pays for everything.

 

[OneFineAcre]

@greybeard
Thanks for the lesson in crop insurance.

The cows were getting out because the thieves stole the gates and the fence charger. I know, not his problem. Just mentioned that so you would know that it wasn't due to irresponsibility on father in law's part. Or, our part for that matter. We've been trying to get the fences and everything fixed as best we can.

I never suggested he isn't owed anything. Nothing in my original post even hinted that I didn't think he was owed. In fact I said:

He of course wants to be paid. No argument with that

Wasn't helpful that he and his two adult son's cornered my sister in law who was out there by herself and tried to intimidate her.

"The question isn't only what the crop may have been worth had he been able to get combines in, but what was the feed value to the encroaching cows worth?"

That's a good point. That's going to be hard to determine though. Do you have any helpful suggestions on how to determine an amicable solution?

Considering when the cows started getting out and the two hurricanes that came through before that point, I don't think there was much out there for them to eat. It's definitely going to be hard to resolve by next week as they have "demanded" It seems to me that they don't just want to be made whole, they want to come out ahead because of what happened.

And the way they approached my SIL, that wasn't productive. It really upset her.

 

[farmerjan]

Best thing for you to do is talk to the sheriff friend that helped with the situation when the cows/trailer and other things were stolen. Explain what is going on. That you acknowledge that the cows have gotten out, that you are responsible for SOME KIND of compensation. BUT.... they have been very aggressive in their intimidation of your SIL, and demand a payment without giving you the courtesy of a value. Ask the sheriff what is the best way to handle it.
Or, did you have to get a lawyer involved when the stuff was stolen? If so, call him and get his opinion. Sometimes you can get a lawyer to send a letter, and say that you acknowledge the problem, but that you are referring all matters to the lawyer due to the previous theft and the difficulties associated with that. Sometimes a lawyers letter will cause them to "cool their jets" a bit... or may make him madder.... but you cannot compensate if they; #1 don't give you a price and #2 they cannot go about intimidating your SIL 3 against one without being aware that it will not be tolerated.
I realize that there are better ways they could have done it; rather than be aggressive with her. My suggestion is to put up some kind of elec wire and just go buy another fence charger, maybe one that you can plug in the house and make sure it is HOT to keep them in, and get it on there for now and then see about fixing/rebuilding the fence. That gets into other things like @greybeard was talking about. Here in Va we have some free range counties.... and other people have to fence the animals OUT of their property.... gets complicated. And another thing, say that you decide to rebuild/ or build new fence along this property line. Does he put any animals against this fence? There are laws about each property owner being responsible for 1/2 the fence if both have animals on it....

I am sure this is just one more thing you did not need. But if they keep up a threatening manner, then the sheriff and a legal solution may be the only safe way to go.

 

[OneFineAcre]

They rent the land the beans are on. In fact, they rent some of the land from the father of the guy who stole the stuff.
The fence is fixed. I don't believe any cows are getting out now.

 

[farmerjan]

@OneFineAcre ; sorry, I misunderstood that the fence was fixed and the cows were not still getting out. I had thought you had taken care of it, but then when I read that post, thought maybe it was still a problem. I would still talk to the sheriff as they won't charge by the hour like a lawyer.... just to let them know that this farmer is acting in a threatening manner to your SIL....Better to have them in the loop knowledge wise..... They might have a suggestion on how to handle it, but at least it has been made known and you never know down the line when that might be needed.
Since this farmer is renting from the father of the guy who stole the stuff, it almost sounds like he thinks that intimidation is okay, and that your family isn't smart enough to know how to deal with it, so he can make threats and act tough.
I also would NOT pay a thing unless it is written out, and a bank check (not personal and definitely NOT CASH) is drawn and that the agreement is signed as being paid in full. This farmer sounds like he would take advantage of Maurine's father. Sorry, I don't like the guy and haven't even met him. I hate bullies.
We have had our cattle get out, have had others get out into our stuff. IT IS PART OF FARMING. You try to work with the adjacent landowners, and you don't get nasty for any kind of first time offenses. SH#T HAPPENS. With what you all have had to go through, a little consideration would go a long way. Especially since he has not gotten the soybeans off anyway. Yes, he is entitled to compensation, yes you have offered. So it is his move to present a bill and for you to determine if it is reasonable.

How long or how many times did they get out? One thing to consider, cattle do not often eat raw soybeans very much. They can get very sick from them. So I honestly would question how much they really did eat... We have charged $5.00 per head per day for a neighbors cattle that were CONSTANTLY out. Several phone call warnings to come get them, several times putting them back ourselves. All recorded on paper, the days and times after the 2nd time.... we finally told them, and the sheriff we talked to, that we were going to pen them and charge them everytime we had to deal with them being in our pastures. They called the sheriff when we wouldn't let them chase them back. He said we were within our rights due to us having given them several warnings etc and so on. They then left them for 3 days, us feeding and watering them, before they came and got them. We were told we could take them to the stockyards and have our damage fees taken out of the check... as long as the law knew what we were doing and why because we had gone through the proper channels. But, they moved them somewhere else as they never came back.
What I am getting at, by letting the sheriff know what was going on, we had alot of leg to stand on. If these guys are being threatening and upsetting your SIL, that is harassment and if they have not presented you with a legit bill, then you have a reasonable case to not pay them due to spoken threats with no actual presented bill for damages.

It sucks that you might have to get this way; in this day and age you have to deal with people the way they deal with you. And this one sounds like you need a record of what you do so there is no coming back later and saying "well they didn't do this or that".

 

[greybeard]

You're welcome, regarding the crop insurance information.

I never suggested he isn't owed anything. Nothing in my original post even hinted that I didn't think he was owed. In fact I said:

He of course wants to be paid. No argument with that

I understood that. And I understand the only value your family members got out of it is whatever feed value your cattle received from their time there in the soybean fields.
The value to the soybean farmer tho, is likely going to be completely different.

I assume the livestock owner understands that the soybean farmer has every right to impound any livestock encroaching on his property and he can hold them until both damages and cost of impoundment is paid.
https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_68/Article_3.pdf

If he is unable to give you a value owed, make him an offer.
How would I do it? Estimate the # of acres the cattle were eating on, pooping on, and trampling down. Find out thru just a little research (or ask the soybean farmer) how many bushels per acre he got last year. (It's probably going to be somewhere around 50 bu/ac as 52.1 bu was North Carolina's average soybean yield/ac) Multiply that X the # of acres the cattle had access to. Use current market value of whatever a bushel of soybeans is bringing X total # of bushels that are in that acreage and make that your first offer.


OR, you can follow what NC's law stipulates.
68-19. Determination of damages by selected landowners or by referee. If the owner and impounder cannot agree as to the cost of impounding and maintaining such livestock, as well as damages to the impounder caused by such livestock running at large, then such costs and damages shall be determined by three disinterested landowners, one to be selected by the owner of the livestock, one to be selected by the impounder and a third to be selected by the first two. If within 10 days a majority of the landowners so selected cannot agree, or if the owner of the livestock or the impounder fails to make his selection, or if the two selected fail to select a third, then the clerk of superior court of the county where the livestock is impounded shall select a referee. The determination of such costs and damages by the landowners or by the referee shall be final. (Code, s. 2186; Rev., s. 1679; C.S., s. 1850; 1951, c. 569; 1971, c. 741, s. 1.)

The cows were getting out because the thieves stole the gates and the fence charger. I know, not his problem

How long ago did this take place and how soon afterwards did your family know the cattle were no longer contained? Yes, it matters in regards to the whole situation because of the way North Carolina's stock and fence law is worded.


As far as the intimidation, that should be handled separately from the value side of things, and as Farmer Jan said, it's a matter for the sheriff dept, as is the estray cattle.

You should know too, that should the farmer be able to get in and harvest what is left of his crop, even if it can only be used for livestock feed, no receiving bin will accept any beans that are contaminated with livestock feces.