opinions needed on new goat possibilities

[marlowmanor]

So I got back in contact with the lady I was looking at getting a goat from when we were first looking for a companion for BlackJack and asked he if she had any does available right now. She said she has 2 does available right now and 1 that will be available next month. One of the does that is ready this month is the one I was interested originally when we were looking for a companion for BlackJack. Both of the ones currently ready to go are close to a year old. I have a question on the other doe available though.

I mentioned to the seller that we would love to have a bred doe and asked her if she had any available (knowing it was a long shot). She told me that this doe was born March 2011. She had a kid around Christmas and they had to assist her in delivery. She said she has tried to keep the bucks away from the does when they are in heat but it is possible that this doe could be bred again. Now for the questions: If she had trouble her first kidding will she have trouble again? I am figuring she had trouble kidding because she was bred young and had a single kid. If she is bred back now how bad would that be for her? Here is a picture of her. She is the doe on the far right.

Here is doe option number 3. I am thinking this is the one that will be ready next month since she looks pretty young. I haven't been able to ask about her yet.

I don't have a good picture of the first doe I mentioned other than a picture that has her backside in it!

So what do y'all think. Would you get the doe that may be bred and had a difficult birth in December, or the little doeling. I am going to ask too if the first doe may be bred as well. Honestly if there is the possibility that the first doe is bred and I can convince DH to go look at her I would so love to have her. I know she has some great coloring on her (blue head, black middle, white butt!)

 

[dreamriver]

they are cute, I'm with you that the little doe needed assistance due to her age, what would she have been only 4 months when bred?!?!?!

best of luck

 

[marlowmanor]

they are cute, I'm with you that the little doe needed assistance due to her age, what would she have been only 4 months when bred?!?!?!

best of luck

Yeah that'd be about right. I don't know what we are doing at the moment. Just looking right now.

 

[Queen Mum]

These are just my thoughts on the matter so don't take them personally. When I buy a goat, I make two distinctions. ONE is the emotional choice and the other is the practical considerations.

Practical things are those like cost, health, herd value, milking quality, quantity and ease of milking, kidding and delivery factors, show value, breeding, temperament and whether they will fit into my farm plan (such as it is), etcetera.

Emotional issues are things like color, cuteness, loveability and well who knows, I just want that goat because I like him/her. I have to give myself permission sometimes to decide based on some motional factors because they do occasionally override the practical considerations. Emotional decisions are fine as long as you acknowledge that is what they are. There is no one to blame for them. They are what they are.

Before buying her, ask yourself the "hard questions" about her. Be honest and don't make "excuses" for defects. AND if you decided to go ahead and overlook defects, be sure and give yourself permission to do that.

BUT remember, if you are going to sell her babies, you need to be aware of the defects when breeding so you can breed UP to a buck to correct those defects.

(Are you going to milk her? If so, check out her udder really carefully.) What is her milk production like? Are her teats looking milkable? How does the udder look as far as attachment. Mastitis, history, etc.)

How does her topline look? Is it nice and straight. It seems like a minor thing, but it makes a difference in how the goat ages and carries her weight. What were the issues with the delivery? How was her recovery after the delivery? (Slow, good, Any infections?) Is she CAE/CL tested? Does she have a good healthy history other than the difficult delivery? How do her legs look? Are they well placed and square to her body so she can carry a "heavy load" of babies. (quads, and triplets). The more I see those little mamas the more important I realize lets are to those little gals when they have lots of little kids in there.

 

[marlowmanor]

These are just my thoughts on the matter so don't take them personally. When I buy a goat, I make two distinctions. ONE is the emotional choice and the other is the practical considerations.

Practical things are those like cost, health, herd value, milking quality, quantity and ease of milking, kidding and delivery factors, show value, breeding, temperament and whether they will fit into my farm plan (such as it is), etcetera.

Emotional issues are things like color, cuteness, loveability and well who knows, I just want that goat because I like him/her. I have to give myself permission sometimes to decide based on some motional factors because they do occasionally override the practical considerations. Emotional decisions are fine as long as you acknowledge that is what they are. There is no one to blame for them. They are what they are.

Before buying her, ask yourself the "hard questions" about her. Be honest and don't make "excuses" for defects. AND if you decided to go ahead and overlook defects, be sure and give yourself permission to do that.

BUT remember, if you are going to sell her babies, you need to be aware of the defects when breeding so you can breed UP to a buck to correct those defects.

(Are you going to milk her? If so, check out her udder really carefully.) What is her milk production like? Are her teats looking milkable? How does the udder look as far as attachment. Mastitis, history, etc.)

How does her topline look? Is it nice and straight. It seems like a minor thing, but it makes a difference in how the goat ages and carries her weight. What were the issues with the delivery? How was her recovery after the delivery? (Slow, good, Any infections?) Is she CAE/CL tested? Does she have a good healthy history other than the difficult delivery? How do her legs look? Are they well placed and square to her body so she can carry a "heavy load" of babies. (quads, and triplets). The more I see those little mamas the more important I realize lets are to those little gals when they have lots of little kids in there.

I don't plan on milking and would let the kids be dam raised. I will be asking for more details on the birthing problems she had if we decide to look at her.
I looked back at the emails I exchanged with the seller the last time I was looking at getting does from her and realized the doe I have so many questions about is actually one I was supposed to look at the last time.
Right now I am debating on an older doe vs a younger doe. I'm almost wanting to lean more towards that little doeling pictured. She looks similar in size to our boys. And really although we want a bred doe so we can have some babies her I am beginning to realize we don't really have the facilities to seperate a doe who kids. Maybe we would be better off just getting a doeling and raising her to be friendly/tame then having her bred when she is old enough which would give us time to upgrade the facilities we have. :/ Of course DH could still decided these are too far away and not even want to go look at them too.

 

[marlowmanor]

So I got some of my questions answered. Trixie (the brown doe who kidded in December) had a rough delivery. Her kid presented head first with front legs back and they tried to assist and weren't able to get the kid out. They lost her kid but saved the doe. The seller is still learning about goats and didn't know everything that needed to be done when assisting the doe.
Sydney (tri colored doe I have no pictures of) had been bred too but miscarried in December. Both Trixie and Sydney may be bred again but it is too early to know for sure yet. If we wait till next month to get one of them though seller is sure she will know if they are bred or not.
Lily (the little doeling in last picture) was born in December. Lily is full pygmy, she has a twin sister that is alpine/pygmy cross. I thought this was interesting. I didn't think that one doe could produce a set of twins that turned out being from 2 different bucks.

The seller is in no hurry to sell so is willing to wait on us to decide if we want to buy one of the does. Now I just have to get DH committed and willing to make the 45 minute drive up there to see the goats. I would love it if he would let us get 2 of the does too. I love Sydney's coloring and I like Lily's coloring too.

We are planning on doing some more fencing for the goats too. I want to be able to have the goats out in their pen all the time and have their lot available as a shelter area where feed, hay and water is. If we can get that figured out there would be plenty of room in the lot for 3 or 4 goats to sleep/hang out in.

I'm dreaming of goat does and I may be getting ahead of myself. I hope DH will be cooperative this time around.

 

[cindyg]

Just re the two different sires, my Pygora doe had two girls last year, obviously different sires, one very ND and one very Nubian looking. Both very sweet, so it can happen

 

[marlowmanor]

Just re the two different sires, my Pygora doe had two girls last year, obviously different sires, one very ND and one very Nubian looking. Both very sweet, so it can happen

I'm glad someone else has experienced it. I had never heard of it happening with goats like that.

 

[dreamriver]

Hmmmmm, maybe it's just me but if our situations were reversed I would very seriously re-consider purchasing goats from this breeder.

Why? bred at 4 months is way too young- probably management issue, it does happen but with the the following also occurring
another doe with difficult birth
another doe that miscarried
Both Trixie and Sydney may be bred again but it is too early to know for sure yet- how long were they exposed to buck? did she witness breeding's, have they recycled? does she run the buck with the girls 24/7
twins with different sires, was this intentional, accidental or poor management?

I hope my .02 doesn't offend you but I would much rather wait, +/- drive farther to find a breeder with more experience, and better kidding results than this seller. do you have a local goat club? anyone in 4h or FFA you could find a breeder through.

I do realize that kidding issues do occur and unplanned pregs occur but I worry that you may not find the success you deserve with the potentials you have listed


runs away.............

 

[marlowmanor]

Hmmmmm, maybe it's just me but if our situations were reversed I would very seriously re-consider purchasing goats from this breeder.

Why? bred at 4 months is way too young- probably management issue, it does happen but with the the following also occurring
another doe with difficult birth
another doe that miscarried
Both Trixie and Sydney may be bred again but it is too early to know for sure yet- how long were they exposed to buck? did she witness breeding's, have they recycled? does she run the buck with the girls 24/7
twins with different sires, was this intentional, accidental or poor management?

I hope my .02 doesn't offend you but I would much rather wait, +/- drive farther to find a breeder with more experience, and better kidding results than this seller. do you have a local goat club? anyone in 4h or FFA you could find a breeder through.

I do realize that kidding issues do occur and unplanned pregs occur but I worry that you may not find the success you deserve with the potentials you have listed


runs away.............

Thank you for your thoughts/opinion. The breeding at 4 months was unintentional. Since the last birthing she has been trying to keep the bucks away from the does when they are in heat. The seller was surprised about the pygmy/alpine crosses she ended up with since she thought the alpine buck was too tall to breed the pygmies! She is still learning about goats. She found the Fiasco Farms website after the birthing issues with Trixie. The plan for these goats is just pets really. We don't have $200+ to put into registered stock or stock from big time breeders. This seller has been very cooperative and willing to answer all questions I have asked her honestly. I really appreciate the cooperation and understanding from her. Not every seller would be willing to get back with you when you changed your mind at an earlier date with them. Yes the seller is basically just a backyard goat farmer, not a big time serious breeder. Her goats appear healthy (I would be checking more if we get to go see them) and she cares alot for them Her prices are good too.

I've been looking for other options too. I am on CL daily looking at the ads for goats. I'm always looking at what kids are produced at my dad's farm too. He has been selling kids quickly right now though. I don't always know when kids are born there. DH and I are still debating whether we will go ahead and put a deposit on an unborn doe from my dad's stock. If we do he'd have to let us know when kids are born so we could pick out what we want. We've got time to do our choosing since we want to do some work on the goat area anyway before we add another goat or 2.