Pasture design question

[ullbergm]

Good day, I'm brand new to this forum so I hope this is the appropriate sub forum to post this in since it has to do with sheep.

We are located in Eastern North Carolina and our goal is to get Katahdins this Spring with the goal of doing market lambs once we are established. We have been doing research for the couple of years, but there are so many different opinions out there.

In preparation for getting animals I spoke to the local Ag extension agent and it was recommended that I plant one summer grass section and one winter grass section in order to have forage growing through the year. I seeded 3 acres of novel endophyte tall fescue (Martin 2 Protek) in the Fall of 2020 and 3 acres of bermuda (Gaucho Bermudagrass) in the Spring of 2021.

The Bermuda is dormant right now but seems to have established nicely, we will see what it looks once it warms up. The Fescue has quite a bit of weeds in there and is not super thick, need to figure out if i need to fertilize it but I'm afraid that I'll fertilize the weeds at the same time..

The pasture has 6" wooden post H-braces in the corners and by the gate, the line posts are T-Posts and I have Red Brand 1348-4-12½ woven wire fence stretched around the perimeter.

I have electric service by the gate and the plan is to add electric fence to the perimeter and use that to hook the temporary fencing for the rotational grazing paddocks.
There are zero trees / shade as this used to be a farm field and I have not ran any water lines yet.

My question right now is how I should set up rotational grazing, plus another a million questions..
Should I do a wagon wheel plan with water in the center and paddocks fanning out from the center, or if i should try to do more rectangular sections.
Should i fence off a sacrificial area near the gate if i need to feed hay in order to let the pasture rest (drought, etc.)?
What about separating a ram from the ewes?
I know stocking rate depends a lot on how productive the pasture is, so our plan is to start with a smaller flock and expand if we see that the pasture can support more. What would be a good number to start with, not knowing how good the pasture is?
How big should the paddocks be?

Long-term plan is to build a barn by the gate.

Pasture dimensions:
West side: 580 ft
North side: 550 ft
East side: 700 ft
South side: 400 ft
Gate: 12 ft

 

[secuono]

If the water source never moves, plan on putting down a huge gravel or concrete area to reduce the mud and filth that will build up.
Having multiple water sources, which they only use a short time, allows the ground to recover and not turn into a pit.

I'm in Va, so not that far. Had very dry summers, but still had some grass for my 20ish sheep at the time, on 4 acres. I didn't move them to feed hay, instead, I brought it out to the paddock they were in. But a sacrifice area may work better for you.

My rams live in a bachelor flock that also rotates with one paddock between them and the ewes. You may need more fencing between your rams and ewes, as I hear some rams are dumb and follow their testicles into trouble.
He'll need at least one friend.

I can tell you that 30 is max for 4 acres in my area.
I now move ewes and ewelings out onto winter field to grow, 20acres, instead of keeping them rotating. The rams use the 4 acres to rotate on. I've had max 8 rams so far. They use the whole area for winter.

You don't mention how and where you will lamb. Keeping all lambs, selling them all? Get as many ewes as you think you can easily handle and house during lambing troubles.
If they're just growing lambs this year, you can stock more, but may not be able to feed the same number once adult and have lambs on their sides.

Size depends on number of sheep and how long you want to rest it. A lot of sheep will eat and trample faster, so need bigger paddocks, but if you want long rests, you need smaller paddocks to move them sooner.

Edited my post because I missed some things you wrote.

 

[Baymule]

I now have a sheep barn and lot to dry lot them in. 1 pasture is connected, have to call them across and down the driveway to move them to other pastures. Their barn is a lean to off the side of a 24' long portable building. Can't drive a tractor in it. I'm selling and will be buying another place. I've done some things right and some things wrong.

My opinion for what it's worth is the strips with a lane from the gate to the barn. Have a dry lot with the barn so you can close them off the grass when necessary. The pinwheel shape is not tractor friendly and you will need to get in/out of the pastures with a tractor for various reasons. Hang 16' gates to each of the strip pastures for swing room for the tractor. You will be glad you did. Also need a turn around cul-de-sac at the barn/lot for the tractor with enough room for implements like a bush hog.

Sheep will need shade for hot days. If you leave the gates open so they can go back to the barn in the heat of the day, then you won't have to put up shade shelters for them.

You can center the barn or put it up to the front for easier access. Does it get muddy? Do you haul feed in the truck and would it get stuck or rut up the lane in wet weather? If barn is at the front, make a drive through barn. My horse barn has an alley 15' high to accommodate a cab tractor or horse and rider. The alley is 12' wide and should have been 14' wide. I have a feed and tack room in it, it is so convenient to just drive through the barn! My next sheep barn will be built like this. It is 36'x36', but the next one will be 2' wider. For sheep, the horse stalls could be built for sheep jugs on one side and working equipment on the other side. The alley will have a gate on both ends for closing them up at night if I want to.

Use radiant heat barrier under the roofing material for the barn. If you put in a metal roof, go the extra mile and deck it with plywood, roofing felt (tar paper) and radiant barrier. Then put the metal on top. It will keep the barn up to 10 or 15 degrees cooler in the summer.

If you feed round bales, you can extend the roof in a lean to shelter to put the hay under. Just make sure you can get a tractor under the roof! Will work for square bales too. Got to keep hay dry.

@Mini Horses you have a lane/pasture set up. Got any ideas?

 

[Baymule]

I raise Katahdins. Wonderful sheep, I love them!

Another thought, if you put the barn up front, recess the barn from the front fence. For instance, hang a 16' gate in the fence. Then dry lot, barn with gate. That way you have a double gate system to keep sheep in better! Can never have too many gates! LOL

 

[Alaskan]

My thoughts depend on if you are starting small.... or big...

If you are starting with just three ewes... you could use a mobile electric fence for inner paddocks.

Using a mobile electric fence with step in posts would give you time to get to know your place, the seasons, and how the sheep like to do things.

With 3 or 5 sheep, hauling water out to a water trough isn't a big trouble.

I just throw that idea out because it sure was nice with horses. I could look out and see if the pasture needed to be bigger, smaller, or moved... and walk out and move it.

Now... with a big flock ... that idea wouldn't be good....

I second @Baymule 's comments. Especially on the barn. I really like HUGE hay storage, where the hay can be perfectly dry, lots of air, and no sun. And, nothing better than dropping the hay directly into the hay feeder from the hay loft. The further the hay is hauled, the more you lose. We were able to store both squares and big rounds in our hay loft... we had a ramp and pulley for the rounds.

As to pasture set-up..... several people on here really like the alley system. I have never had a set-up like that... so haven't ever managed to wrap my head around it.


However you set it up... it is very personal preference.... but... the water area is always a sacrificial area. And, they will usually need access to shade/shelter.

Often it is easiest to make a shelter next to the water, and then the shelter/water area also has sorting pens... and 2 or 4 pastures open onto the water/shelter area.

However... if the water area has only water... and then each pasture that opens onto the water has its own shelter at the end farthest from the water.... it helps to spread out the grazing pressure.. the animals are encouraged to walk more and spread out their grazing/graze the pasture more evenly. You can also help to encourage more spread out grazing by where you put their minerals.

I also second baymule on the huge gates.

So....before starting to put in interior fences... see where the truck can drive (some areas might be too soft in spring). Sketch out the drive-able areas. Then decide where the barn and sorting pens will go, and what kind/how many shelters you can afford/want to put up.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day, you are certainly doing the right thing consulting with the group before you start.

It has been our experience in over almost 50 years of livestock production that the key is to have your required infrastructure in "place", before you introduce the stock. The fact is that "starting from scratch" you have much to learn ,I am still learning about stock, landscape and water even after all these years.

Do you get snow? Can you graze year round? Are there other sheep folks nearby?

On your plan you do not indicate where your house is? I would suggest about a level walk of about 50 meters. Bay is correct about a BIG BARN the largest you can afford. I would also suggest a set of yards with a drafting race and if you can include a sheep handler ,mores the better .If at all possible stay away from the wool breeds unless you are going to learn ,"how to shear and have a shearing stand off of a small set of yards in the barn." However ,it could be you have a ready made market to hand spinners and weavers ?If this was the case enquire as to what type of wool they prefer? If you can secure the sheep a small flock of Naturally Colored Corridales would return a premium for the fleece and still produce an acceptable table lamb or sell excess boys as "lawnmowers." When Jenny and our girls were young I bred a flock like this because they took up spinning. Over time I had customers from the city who would travel to the farm and select a sheep and I would shear it on the spot.

Now to your meat sheep choice, who will buy your lambs? If you breed a lamb for the white folks market ,you are immediately in competition with sheep farmers who may run 500/1000 ewes and you will struggle to produce a lamb at any where near the cost they can .I would look around your immediate area ,how far to your nearest large population center? What is the ethnic breakup, does the town have a mosque? here is an immediate market for the "right" type of lamb and will return a premium price ,if you are producing a sheep that looks in part like the sheep of their homeland. Setting up this flock will be more expensive than the "run of the mill sheep flock", but you will be a "price setter ,not a price taker."

In closing can I suggest you take a look at FB Australian Painted Sheep, this is my group ,made up of about 75% female sheep farmers and a great group of girls to boot.......T.O.R.

 

[Mini Horses]

I have 15 acres, which has several shelters and cross fencing. First mini horses, now a few old minis and a lot of goats...more coming. I have trees but, none when I bought 20 yr ago....huge peanut field before....open land.

In general, my land is a rectangle and I DO have a drive thru alley the entire length. Fortunately, I installed underground water lines top to bottom. Pastures are to right and left of drive alley...lot of gates! But, I can use that alley to move animals pasture to pasture very easily. Yes, you NEED a sacrifice area. My land drains well, so seldom mud, but occasionally see some in high traffic areas....water tubs. I have used perforated grids in those areas with success to keep dirt from being washed out.

Size of pastures vary. I rarely use temp electric fence for rotation but, have are times. Mainly because of my fence and cross fencing, I have rotation in place. Didn't happen overnight!

Grasses here are mixed, along with forages that some may consider undesirable BUT goats do not. Yes I encourage dandelions and routinely toss seed for chicory, turnips, vetch, etc. In fall, barley is added. No chemicals used here. Some forage is only good for certain seasons (heat/cool) and that's fine as there is a good stand of mixed grass established. You plant for what your animals need. Sheep graze grasses better than goats.

Varieties of the grasses you suggest have different growth and nutrition factors, so check that out. Bermuda has good forage type and others that are not so productive. Fescue, use less toxic endophyte types. You will need shade for these animals. Areas like a a carport are easy to add. I'm in VA, SE corner, so only a few miles from NC line. We get heat!

 

[ullbergm]

Wow, so many good answers from a lot of people, i'll try to answer them as best i can.

If the water source never moves, plan on putting down a huge gravel or concrete area to reduce the mud and filth that will build up.
Having multiple water sources, which they only use a short time, allows the ground to recover and not turn into a pit.

That's a good point, and after making the post I did some more research and moving the water seems like a better idea for the pasture even if it adds a little work for me.

I'm in Va, so not that far. Had very dry summers, but still had some grass for my 20ish sheep at the time, on 4 acres. I didn't move them to feed hay, instead, I brought it out to the paddock they were in. But a sacrifice area may work better for you.

Did you continue to rotate them and added some extra food in the form of hay so that they did not trample one part of the pasture?

My rams live in a bachelor flock that also rotates with one paddock between them and the ewes. You may need more fencing between your rams and ewes, as I hear some rams are dumb and follow their testicles into trouble.
He'll need at least one friend.

Sounds easy enough (assuming he is not a trouble maker..)

I can tell you that 30 is max for 4 acres in my area.

That's good to know.

You don't mention how and where you will lamb. Keeping all lambs, selling them all? Get as many ewes as you think you can easily handle and house during lambing troubles.
If they're just growing lambs this year, you can stock more, but may not be able to feed the same number once adult and have lambs on their sides.

I'm kinda thinking of just some young ewes first and run them without a ram for the first year in order to learn some of the management practices and then plan on lambing next spring.

 

[ullbergm]

I now have a sheep barn and lot to dry lot them in. 1 pasture is connected, have to call them across and down the driveway to move them to other pastures. Their barn is a lean to off the side of a 24' long portable building. Can't drive a tractor in it. I'm selling and will be buying another place. I've done some things right and some things wrong.

My opinion for what it's worth is the strips with a lane from the gate to the barn. Have a dry lot with the barn so you can close them off the grass when necessary. The pinwheel shape is not tractor friendly and you will need to get in/out of the pastures with a tractor for various reasons. Hang 16' gates to each of the strip pastures for swing room for the tractor. You will be glad you did. Also need a turn around cul-de-sac at the barn/lot for the tractor with enough room for implements like a bush hog.

Good point on being able to navigate things with the tractor. I'm now thinking that I'll run temporary netting until i know more about how things work on my land (like Alaskan suggested).

Sheep will need shade for hot days. If you leave the gates open so they can go back to the barn in the heat of the day, then you won't have to put up shade shelters for them.

How far will they walk for shade? will they walk 500 ft from the forage to get to the barn?

You can center the barn or put it up to the front for easier access. Does it get muddy? Do you haul feed in the truck and would it get stuck or rut up the lane in wet weather? If barn is at the front, make a drive through barn. My horse barn has an alley 15' high to accommodate a cab tractor or horse and rider. The alley is 12' wide and should have been 14' wide. I have a feed and tack room in it, it is so convenient to just drive through the barn! My next sheep barn will be built like this. It is 36'x36', but the next one will be 2' wider. For sheep, the horse stalls could be built for sheep jugs on one side and working equipment on the other side. The alley will have a gate on both ends for closing them up at night if I want to.

I like that idea.

If it rains super hard then i do tend to get some standing water along the dividing line between the two different forages, so putting the barn in the center and driving in to it would require me to put in a proper gravel road.

Another thought, if you put the barn up front, recess the barn from the front fence. For instance, hang a 16' gate in the fence. Then dry lot, barn with gate. That way you have a double gate system to keep sheep in better! Can never have too many gates! LOL

Would you put the barn (red) inside or outside the pasture? Grey lines being the dry-lot.
Inside the pasture would give me more space to play with.

 

[ullbergm]

My thoughts depend on if you are starting small.... or big...

If you are starting with just three ewes... you could use a mobile electric fence for inner paddocks.

Using a mobile electric fence with step in posts would give you time to get to know your place, the seasons, and how the sheep like to do things.

With 3 or 5 sheep, hauling water out to a water trough isn't a big trouble.

I just throw that idea out because it sure was nice with horses. I could look out and see if the pasture needed to be bigger, smaller, or moved... and walk out and move it.

I like that, I'm not wanting to start out with too many and get overwhelmed, in beekeeping I always tell people that you start with a couple of hives and then you double each year. That way your management practices can grow with your apiary, if you go from 2 hives to 50 hives that is a whole different way of managing things.

Now... with a big flock ... that idea wouldn't be good....

Any ideas as to about where the line is between small and big flock where temporary netting and moving water would get impractical? 5, 10, 50?

I second @Baymule 's comments. Especially on the barn. I really like HUGE hay storage, where the hay can be perfectly dry, lots of air, and no sun. And, nothing better than dropping the hay directly into the hay feeder from the hay loft. The further the hay is hauled, the more you lose. We were able to store both squares and big rounds in our hay loft... we had a ramp and pulley for the rounds.

I'm guessing its like most things, you never hear someone say they built the barn too big?

I also second baymule on the huge gates.

So....before starting to put in interior fences... see where the truck can drive (some areas might be too soft in spring). Sketch out the drive-able areas. Then decide where the barn and sorting pens will go, and what kind/how many shelters you can afford/want to put up.

Yeah, I like the idea of not putting in many permanent things until after I see how things really end up working.