Baymule
Herd Master
Not to be picky, but that’s still not a lot of room. Any particular reason for being so small? Is your 9 acres fenced on the outer parameter?
Questions about milk & cream
- Thread starter dairydreams
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dairydreams
Overrun with beasties
Thanks for asking! So 20ft x 160ft or so, divided to rotate, still wouldn't be enough for 3-4 goats? Grr I just don't know what to do! I have seen people who regularly rotate a 16x16 foot cattle panel fence with 5 goats or so, so thought my set up would be over kill. Ugh back to the drawing board. ((The goal is to not have to rotate a whole fence daily, hence the permanent divided fence).
We do not have parameter fence, but my husband and I play disc golf as a hobby and he has a course through our woods. We are trying to figure out where we can fit in livestock without taking away from the course too much. As I mentioned we don't have a ton of open pasture. I'd say we have maybe 1.5 acres open, MAYBE 2 being really generous, but that still has our house on it and our large shed converted into a coop (with a fence around that), plus some fruit trees, a small garden, etc., and much of it is immediately surrounding the house, and hubby's not to keen on livestock being able to look into our windows
We do not have parameter fence, but my husband and I play disc golf as a hobby and he has a course through our woods. We are trying to figure out where we can fit in livestock without taking away from the course too much. As I mentioned we don't have a ton of open pasture. I'd say we have maybe 1.5 acres open, MAYBE 2 being really generous, but that still has our house on it and our large shed converted into a coop (with a fence around that), plus some fruit trees, a small garden, etc., and much of it is immediately surrounding the house, and hubby's not to keen on livestock being able to look into our windows
Mini Horses
Herd Master
Don't worry, goats won't be looking in your window -- they'll be too busy eating the garden and fruit trees! 
They will clear the "forest" like a hired lawn crew. It sounds like your choices are limited if you have already designed land use, to continue that use. Much would have to be reassigned.
With your situation becoming clearer, I'd suggest fence 2 reasonably large areas in wooded area ...it will be a dirt lot quickly...and plan to feed good hay year round. The lot would be exercise area rather than dependable "feed" area. You can use say, 80X100 .... In areas to which you rotate. Goats do not like rain -- so plan shelter for wherever they are.
They will clear the "forest" like a hired lawn crew. It sounds like your choices are limited if you have already designed land use, to continue that use. Much would have to be reassigned.
With your situation becoming clearer, I'd suggest fence 2 reasonably large areas in wooded area ...it will be a dirt lot quickly...and plan to feed good hay year round. The lot would be exercise area rather than dependable "feed" area. You can use say, 80X100 .... In areas to which you rotate. Goats do not like rain -- so plan shelter for wherever they are.
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- #24
dairydreams
Overrun with beasties
LOL!! Yes -- that is definitely a concern; I'll feed 'em hay, but preferably not the crops 
Ok, so if I am to understand...fenced in goats OR cow, I'll ultimately be ending up with dry lots and buying hay...unless perhaps I am willing to move a temporary fence daily throughout the property (with goats)...does that seem about right?
collectively, what would y'all say is the ideal amount of land to rotate goats like this?
Ok, so if I am to understand...fenced in goats OR cow, I'll ultimately be ending up with dry lots and buying hay...unless perhaps I am willing to move a temporary fence daily throughout the property (with goats)...does that seem about right?
collectively, what would y'all say is the ideal amount of land to rotate goats like this?
Baymule
Herd Master
I know you are trying, but I don’t think you understand just how much space animals need for grazing or browsing in order to not turn it into a mudhole. In a short time you will only be moving them from one mudhole or dust hole, depending upon the weather, to another. No grass, only brush or browse and browse doesn’t grow back quickly at all. So if all y’all are willing to give up for the animals is a small space, rotating them from one small lot to another is going to be a waste of time. I’m not being rude, just save yourself the trouble, fence them a good sized lot so they can run and play, and plan on feeding them.
I’m guessing that you have read about rotational grazing and it appeals to you. Recovery time for grass to grow back can vary from 30 to 90 days. The animals may only be able to graze a patch a few days, maybe a week, 3 weeks at the most, before you have to move them to keep them from eating it down to the roots and killing the grass. The smaller the pasture, the faster you have to move them.
I learn best by doing. I do many things that I don’t know a durned thing about, but I do them anyway. So before you go building a bunch of pens, just start with one. Plan on feeding them. Add another enclosure, see how long it takes them to eat it down and then you will get an idea of how your land will respond to the animals. Then figure out how you want to configure your accommodations from there.
I’m guessing that you have read about rotational grazing and it appeals to you. Recovery time for grass to grow back can vary from 30 to 90 days. The animals may only be able to graze a patch a few days, maybe a week, 3 weeks at the most, before you have to move them to keep them from eating it down to the roots and killing the grass. The smaller the pasture, the faster you have to move them.
I learn best by doing. I do many things that I don’t know a durned thing about, but I do them anyway. So before you go building a bunch of pens, just start with one. Plan on feeding them. Add another enclosure, see how long it takes them to eat it down and then you will get an idea of how your land will respond to the animals. Then figure out how you want to configure your accommodations from there.
Mini Horses
Herd Master
I have about 30 goats but, 15 acres of established pasture...I must hay them in winter. There is often some old grasses there but, nutritional quality is not good enough. They nip & pick, walk around, back to sheds.
Yes, Bay is right.... 9 acres is plenty. BUT you're not planning/wanting/able to use it and most is wooded, so far less grass. Yep, fence a sizeable pasture and plan on hay pretty much all year, until you want to change fencing to enlarge. That's doable.
Yes, Bay is right.... 9 acres is plenty. BUT you're not planning/wanting/able to use it and most is wooded, so far less grass. Yep, fence a sizeable pasture and plan on hay pretty much all year, until you want to change fencing to enlarge. That's doable.
SageHill
Herd Master
Ditto what everyone has said here. Once they get the tasty stuff they will eat out the roots leaving you with a dry lot situation.
I'm the odd duck here in that I don't rotational graze, but take my sheep out when conditions are good -- cool and at best green, or cool and brown. Has to be cool here because of rattlesnakes - a definite issue here. We move the sheep around to different areas and they are only in a spot for a short time before moving to another. I've got the space and dogs to do it. Living and learning this very old style of grazing.
You mentioned moving the fence daily -- ouch - that's a lot of time every single day. It takes a lot of time for the green to regrow after it's been grazed down. Just think of how long it takes to plant seed and have it look good - same thing. You ~could let them for a short time (couple few hours) and then have them back in a corral and also supply good quality hay/alfalfa/whatever is best for goats. I only have sheep here - so they graze and get alfalfa.
I'm the odd duck here in that I don't rotational graze, but take my sheep out when conditions are good -- cool and at best green, or cool and brown. Has to be cool here because of rattlesnakes - a definite issue here. We move the sheep around to different areas and they are only in a spot for a short time before moving to another. I've got the space and dogs to do it. Living and learning this very old style of grazing.
You mentioned moving the fence daily -- ouch - that's a lot of time every single day. It takes a lot of time for the green to regrow after it's been grazed down. Just think of how long it takes to plant seed and have it look good - same thing. You ~could let them for a short time (couple few hours) and then have them back in a corral and also supply good quality hay/alfalfa/whatever is best for goats. I only have sheep here - so they graze and get alfalfa.
Alaskan
Herd Master
X2.
I really like Saanen milk, and when the Saanen was fed mostly barley, I liked the milk best. But the milk was always great from my Saanen, no matter what she was fed, just different.
The feed makes huge difference in the taste of the milk, and the breed makes a huge difference as well.
Another huge taste factor is how the milk is handled. If the milk is cooled down FAST after milking, or not... and how old the milk is.
Personally, I prefer my goat milk to taste like store bought 2% cow milk.
For me... that meant, Saanen goat, fed lots of barley, super fast cooling of the milk, keep the milk raw, and drink it at 24 hours old or younger. (The older the milk, the more "goaty" it tastes like).
Also, personally, I don't see how a Saanen can be beat as a milk animal. Nice LARGE, easy to milk teats, good quantity of milk, and mine would milk for YEARS after a single breeding.
The mini goats are cute, but often come with tiny teats, shorter lactations, and lower production.
I would suggest excellent fencing, spend LOTS of money on fencing. Re-fence your orchard and vegetable garden, 6 feet tall and impenetrable.
And then ALSO, fence their paddock/pasture. Sounds to me that you don't have all that much space actually, so I would just make a goat shelter, fence that in, and then connected to that, make a fence as big as you can for pasture.
Again, use EXCELLENT fence. Save money on the shelter, for that you can use pallets, scrounged roofing, etc. All good.
As to poop... I never had to clean their pasture areas... only their shelter.
If you get a bunch of poo in their pasture, you might be able to just rake it into piles and then shovel it out.
I locked my goats up every night to protect them. Stray dogs will be your biggest goat killers. Use fences that will keep goats in and all dogs out.
That night shelter had to be cleaned out maybe once a year, in the spring. Shovel out the many layers of hay and poo, and stick it someplace to compost.
Since you have forest and brush that the goats will not have access to..... you can always harvest forage for them, and toss it into their pen.
That way, you can utilize all the forage on your property, even though it will not be fenced in.
Alaskan
Herd Master
Oh... my night shelter was about 10x20, that connected to a about 10x20 sheltered run-through... and I ran 3 adult goats. Kids I got rid of when they were butcher size...
I also always kept the kids on the goats. And 2 or so weeks after kidding we would start milking 2x a day.
My Nubian would only lactate maybe 7 months? My mini-saanen had tiny teats and unimpressive production (and she had great pedigree), my full Saanen... wow... if you milked her, she produced milk. You milked her more, she produced more. Work horse!!
I also always kept the kids on the goats. And 2 or so weeks after kidding we would start milking 2x a day.
My Nubian would only lactate maybe 7 months? My mini-saanen had tiny teats and unimpressive production (and she had great pedigree), my full Saanen... wow... if you milked her, she produced milk. You milked her more, she produced more. Work horse!!
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- #30
dairydreams
Overrun with beasties
Thank you SO MUCH everyone for all of your feedback!
I'm hard to offend so the brutal honesty is very much appreciated.
@Alaskan it seems so obviously but I never considered just harvesting brush to toss in with the goats. That makes completely sense.
@Baymule turns out I had an extremely poor and skewed idea of how much space we have available...to my benefit though. It looks like What I thought was about 50 feet deep of woods is closer to 100-150 feet deep, and what I figured was about 100 feet wide is double.
Hubby & I walked the property with measuring tape today and had a long talk about what we want to do. He is willing to sacrifice a fair bit of his disc golf course (that he admits he doesn't use as much as he used to) and that gives me an enormous space through the woods (about 300 ft deep now and equally wide, if not wider). That gives me a much, much larger spot to work with. It's actually quite the game changer as far as space goes, but still lends itself best to goats I think with supplementing hay still.
I am visiting the goat/cow farm tomorrow to see how she does things, hopefully that will help give me some ideas!
Also thanks for the feedback on breeds everyone ^_^
@SageHill when you say you take the sheep out sometimes, how do you do that? Do you set up a temporary fence?
I'm hard to offend so the brutal honesty is very much appreciated.
@Alaskan it seems so obviously but I never considered just harvesting brush to toss in with the goats. That makes completely sense.
@Baymule turns out I had an extremely poor and skewed idea of how much space we have available...to my benefit though. It looks like What I thought was about 50 feet deep of woods is closer to 100-150 feet deep, and what I figured was about 100 feet wide is double.
Hubby & I walked the property with measuring tape today and had a long talk about what we want to do. He is willing to sacrifice a fair bit of his disc golf course (that he admits he doesn't use as much as he used to) and that gives me an enormous space through the woods (about 300 ft deep now and equally wide, if not wider). That gives me a much, much larger spot to work with. It's actually quite the game changer as far as space goes, but still lends itself best to goats I think with supplementing hay still.
I am visiting the goat/cow farm tomorrow to see how she does things, hopefully that will help give me some ideas!
Also thanks for the feedback on breeds everyone ^_^
@SageHill when you say you take the sheep out sometimes, how do you do that? Do you set up a temporary fence?
