Questions about milk & cream

[dairydreams]

Hi y'all! Long time listener, first time caller.
*skip ahead to bypass the back story!
I've been wanting a diary animal for years, and only very, very recently has hubby got on board. We've been having a debate about getting dairy cows vs. dairy goats. We are on 9 acres, but most is heavily wooded and, in my opinion, not exactly suitable for a cow/calf pair for rotational grazing (as I would prefer). Goats are another story, we have plenty of places they could be rotated (and I'll probably start another thread with questions about that, but I digress...)

I currently have both a goat milk share and a cow milk (and cream) share that we pick up weekly. The big debate with my husband is that he says he does not like goat milk. He said he'll drink it if he "has to". His preference is a cow, and he sights that not only the flavor of the milk but the cream wouldn't be the same (we have never had goat cream).

SO, the questions are....

*
1. How does goat cream compare to cow cream in terms of taste and consistency?
2. How do they compare in terms of how much cream you get per gallon of milk?
3. After you've skimmed cream from either goat or cow milk, how does it alter the taste of the remaining milk?

Breed info: For cows we haven't narrowed it down to anything, save for a "mini", or mid-mini, or anything smaller scale. Looking at jerseys but in my area dexters (or dexter crosses) are most prevalent.
For goats we are looking at Nigerian dwarfs or Mini Nubians (the latter is my preference).
The goat milk we currently get is a mixture of lamancha and ND's milk (she milks both then mixes for best taste & quantity). The cow milk and cream we get is from as Jersey herd.

Thanks in advance for any responses!

 

[Mini Horses]

Read this late last night. Too sleepy to reply.

Goat milk is "naturally homogenized" so the cream does not separate as fast or as much as cow. It will rise after a week or so, a little at a time. I have a cream separator and it's best to use if you want goat cream in any quantity. The milk after is still good to drink, not quite as rich. Cows provide more cream, which is not as white, due to how the animals process carotene. Thus, goat butter is white...different, plainer taste, same carotene reason. Cream quantity ratio = breed & feed. There are charts for which is most likely ratio.

Taste preference is personal. But the feed and breed of animal does affect taste. ND & mini Nubians (ND mix) may have more/less desirable taste as it has higher cream, compliments of the ND. I raise Saanen & SaanenXnubian. I love the milk and feel it is closest to bought whole milk in store. Many of the largest goat dairies in the world use Saanen for quantity & quality of milk. They predominately give 1.5-2 gal a day.

If you are truly considering a dairy animal, I'd suggest you find a breeder and obtain milk to try before you buy. Cattle usually produce more....and one animal. 2-3 goats can produce as much or more and you can dry one off if too much. Excess milk makes cheese, yogurt, etc, feed chickens, pigs, and such. Both animals can produce offspring for meat. Both provide fertilizer. Obviously size is a consideration for handling. And personally, I'm happier with pellets than plops!

There are some for a beginner thoughts to ponder.

I'm sure others will have input as a couple days go by.

 

[dairydreams]

Thank you for your thoughtful response! As mentioned in my original post, I get both raw cow and raw goat shares -- or did you mean to sample the milk from the animal I am considering for purchase? That is a really good suggestion, thank you! Also some good food for thought regarding drying of a portion of the herd if I'm getting too much milk with the goats.

LOL your pellets vs. plops is hilarious but very valid!! I'd have to agree!

 

[Baymule]

I have sheep, not goats. But if I were to get a milking animal, it would be a goat. 9 acres suddenly becomes very small when you add a cow. Plus they are bigger, takes more to handle one. Then there is breeding in order to keep the milk flowing, AI, or take her somewhere to be bred? 9 acres becomes even smaller with addition of a calf. You mention not much grass and lots of woods. Great for goats, but for a cow, you will be buying a lot of feed.

@frustratedearthmother keeps goats in rotatational milk. She doesn’t pull all the kids like most people do. That way she can skip a milking if she needs to and the kid will nurse enough to take care of the milk. She can explain it better than I can. If I were to have milk goats, I’d follow her example, but that’s just me.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[dairydreams]

Thanks so much @Baymule , this is definitely what I'm leaning toward, including kid sharing (especially as these will be my first herd animals and I need back up in case milking is difficult!). The other hesitation with goats is keeping them in the fence (we are very worried about them getting out and eating the garden/fruit trees) but my understanding is with suitable fencing and rotating their space/making sure they have browse where they are, they will be less tempted to escape...however I also hear escaping isn't "if" but "when" :/

 

[Baymule]

Houdini goats, they have 24-7 to plot against you! Another reason I chose sheep. My sheep are so easy, even the rams. I choose rams carefully, I got the inside line on calm rams! @Mike CHS is the ram whisperer! When he’s done with one, I buy his. LOL It means a trip from east Texas to Tennessee, but I get the added bonus of getting to visit for a few days with my dear friends.

I believe the answer you may be looking for is HOT WIRE. Goaties can chime in and tell you all about it.

 

[Mini Horses]

I also kid share the milking girls. It's helpful for milking routine as I still have a job, sometimes I'd rather not milk. But they must be! Plus kids learn to be goats. They can be bottle fed and live with moms -- little tricky first couple weeks, then they don't try to nurse. And if kidding is staggered, you can have milk all year. Rather than a cow dried off and an only leaves nothing else to milk.

A commercial dairy will remove babes at birth, milk colostrum, feed kids and continue on. Sell or bottle raise the little ones. They have sales to fill.

You will get more consistent quantity if you bottle the kids. The doe is on a schedule for 2x a day -- and so are you. . If I'm training a doe with intentions of selling for a milker, I will bottle kids. Some older does, who'll never leave my farm, sometimes get different treatment. But kids nursing as it pleases means the doe regulate milk making for their needs. If 2x a day for a milk stand, she'll produce all you take both times, up to her capacity. Engineering at its best!

Something to remember, it takes FAR more nutrition for the animal to make milk than grow a fetus. So feed at milking/nursing for good health.

 

[Mini Horses]

@farmerjan will give you great cow info -- she's raking hay today.

@Ridgetop can give great goat info -- she's on a road trip to TX now

@frustratedearthmother will add to goats info -- believe she's fishing!

Everyone will catch up when they can. all with YEARS of experience.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

@frustratedearthmother will add to goats info -- believe she's fishing!

I wish it would stop raining long enough for me to go fishing, lol.

I am a firm believer in milk-sharing with kids. I usually don't start until the kids are a couple weeks old. Then, I milk on MY schedule. I've got a doe out there now who refuses to dry up - so even with her 8 month old kids I can still sneak a little milk here and there. Seriously have to get those kids weaned!

I don't have a separator like Mini has, so I just skim cream off the top when it separates. Butter is white and very mild tasting. Goat cream is the best thing that ever happened to coffee.

Cheese is delicious. Rosemary/garlic chevre is to die for.

 

[farmerjan]

Done and in for the night... First off, please go to your name top right, click on and go down to account details and location and put some sort of "location"... state, area, something, so us can relate to where you are when we answer questions.

First off, you do NOT want a "MINI" cow... genetic hassles, calving hassles, breeding hassles... Dexters are a small breed, and have been bred for years so are not a problem per se.... the mini breeds are "designer breeds" and another fad in my opinion.... smaller sized jerseys are fine... supposedly there are 3 sizes now???? WTH.....
If you go with a cow, there are all the considerations @Mini Horses mentioned... breeding situation... grazing situation.... calf raising situation and if you keep the calf to be a beef, then there is ALOT more feed consideration...
That said, I have jerseys, jersey/hol crosses and Guernsey crosses... and they get bred AI when I want a dairy calf, and run with the angus bull when a 1/2 beef calf will suit.
There is no way a fair to decent dairy cow (I do not know much about Dexters so will not make a blanket statement on them) can only "milk share" with one calf... they produce too much. Even a "poor producer" will make 2-3 gallons a day....and if you are not going to milk 2x a day, then she will need at the LEAST.... 2 calves on her... I usually put 3 on each nurse cow... they will milk "the fat off their back"... meaning in the beginning they will draw down their weight making milk until they reach a level... so HAVE to have some added grain and Good Hay... I want mine to raise 3 per lactation since the calves are worth a bit less if they are dairy crosses... right now prices are good but the bubble is going to burst.
Not all cows will take "grafted on calves"... some do great...
Seldom do cows have twins so you will have to find another calf to put on them.
If you want you could bottle raise a couple extra calves to use the milk that you are milking out of her twice a day... You can make butter, all sorts of other dairy products, and feed the surplus to pigs...

A cow that is making a decent amount of milk will need about 5-10 lbs of grain a day at least... and a cow will eat at least 1, usually up to 2, sq bales a day (50 lbs) . Or using a roll of hay, weighing 800-1000 lbs, figure that a cow will eat at least 1 every 3 weeks to a month... and there is waste with rolls on the outside of the bale...

They are not cheap to feed and if you don't have pasture for grazing there is no way to justify the cost of buying all the feed...

NOT trying to talk you out of a cow... just want you to have a very realistic understanding of what they require...

The comparison is 4-6 sheep equals a cow... so somewhat similar with goats I guess...

Be glad to answer any questions... I like my cows...