Quick and easy cattle panel hoola-hoop house

[babsbag]

I never thought about the insurance aspect...good point. My LGDs would be extremely upset if the animal was in any distress during the process so I won't do it for that reason as well.

Interesting that the sheep prefer the rain. It is what it is, you can lead the horse to water... At least no one can say that you are withholding shelter and therefore being 'cruel". My goats would be in that hoop house so fast; they hate rain. But on a sunny day they would be ON the hoop house.

 

[soarwitheagles]

So amazing how animals differ in behavior. Animal behavior science must also be amazing. Wish I know more!

 

[greybeard]

Not every animal at an auction is a cull.

I tend to disagree unless it is a dispersal sale. If it's breeding animals especially. (Intact males and all females) No producer sends a good animal to sale from their herd.
That doesn't mean there aren't quality animals available thru the ring, because one producer's cull can be someone else's prize acquisition. I've bought some nice heifers and even some older cows at auctions, but they came from herds that had very good genetics and the ones they were selling just didn't measure up to their higher breeding standards, but they worked well for my cow/calf operation, and I know a lot of people that do the same thing.
Generally speaking, (for most of the country) the worst time to buy livestock for replacement at the local salebarn is in the fall. Smaller farmers and ranchers are cutting back their stocking rates..deciding what they feel is worth wintering over and which aren't worth feeding the extra hay and supplement thru winter, and that's usually when you see the 'junk' stock run thru the ring. I will not buy an open cow from an auction in the fall.

Now, if you just want to background something for a few months, then run them thru again, auctions can get you where you want to be, if you have a discerning eye.
More and more people are buying lightweights, giving them some groceries and some good grass and making $$ on them without having to worry about a sire, birthing problems, etc.

 

[farmerjan]

Greybeard, I can agree and disagree with your comments on "every animal at an auction is not a cull." Yes, it may not meet my highest expectations so is a "cull" from my herd as far as a breeder....but then again, we are cow/calf, and we cannot even begin to raise all our good heifers as replacements since we would run out of room in 2 years. That said, we are in the business to sell feeders, and cannot afford to keep many of the good heifers. Especially like this fall when we have a calf crop of over 75% heifers much to our dismay.
One of the reasons we sell at the auction is to get a check that day once they are sold. What they see is what they get, no guarantees.

Have been there, done that, with selling privately and had them not have enough money on the day they came to get the animal, have had bad checks from some people you would never have expected it from, you name it. Plus the ones that come back 3 or 6 months later and complain that this is wrong or that is wrong or they thought this. This after having some written sales agreements too. If we were selling purebred breeding stock then it would be different, but just to sell commercial animals, the auction is the better place around here.
So many times buying at auction is not the worst way to go if you have some knowledge of what you are doing. Agree that it is not for the unknowing, but it is buyer beware.
That said, we have several guys that will come up to us, and ask if we brought animals in when they see us, because they have bought some of our calves in the past and have said that they did real good for them. And this past fall early fall we did sell a big group of light weight (450) steers to a guy who said he would rather buy direct, so they don't have to go through the sale and get exposed to everything there, and we weighed and delivered to him, local, and they wrote a check right there and it was a good deal. Hope to do the same this next year, but won't have near as many, again since we had so many heifers born.
We never buy an open cow at a sale, unless she has a calf by her side. And after years of buying some bred heifers here and there, DO NOT buy any bred heifers anymore. We have a neighbor and friend who breeds and sells bred heifers ever fall, usually about 75 - 100. He is also cow/calf, and mostly keeps his heifers and then sells breds. Has good commercial cattle. And we still don't buy bred heifers. First off we have our own; second, if I am going to buy breds, they are going to be cows that have some idea of what they are doing. And we do buy bred cows; mostly at dispersals, but also some odd ones here and there that we think we can make a few dollars on down the road. Especially in the current market with some bringing not alot over cull price. Again, you have to know something of what you are doing....we often buy older cows, some with maybe a year or two left in them and have made a bit over the years. Lost a few too, but you can lose a 2000 heifer too.
We went through the learning curve, and still don't always get it right every time now, but we are still in it....

 

[babsbag]

@greybeard @farmerjan just said the same thing that I was going to say about dairy goats. I have a lot of friends that take their bumper kid crop and sometimes their does and bucks to the auction. They simply have too many animals and the market can only absorb so many goats. If they are heavy into the show circuit they will take a doe that maybe only has 1/2 an udder, or a buck whose genetics they are done with. The animals are healthy and well cared for and still produce but just not for them. Sometimes getting rid of them, even at auction, is better than keeping them on the feed bill.

 

[greybeard]

Yep--there's a hundred different reasons at any given time for selecting what to keep and what to sell.
Cull doesn't have to mean the animal is only good for the grinder. It all depends how high the bar is set for any seller and what he's basing his culling on. Sometimes it's genetics driven (epd stuff--weaning weight/daily rate of gain/milk #s for instance)--often, it's just phenotype driven--the seller doesn't like the hair color or pattern.
Even if it's just a matter of being overstocked, the seller still is usually keeping his best stock and getting rid of the lower echelon stuff.

If I had a good running and good looking Ford and the same condition Caddy, and only wanted to keep one car, I'd probably sell the Ford and keep the cadillac. The Ford would make someone a great car that wanted a Ford, but it's still a cull.

 

[babsbag]

My personal issue with buying at auction is that it is a crap shoot. I do know people that do send their sick or inferior animals, and that is all they send to auction.

I have one friend in particular that takes all of her kids and her adult animals when she is done with them to auction. She doesn't want to deal with private treaty sales and she usually is strapped for cash and the auction pays quickly. She sells the kids at weaning, she only keeps one if her children become ultra attached for some reason. I have bought some very nice goats from her, ADGA registered, clean, and tested. If I hadn't wanted them for the dairy they would have gone to auction. I know of least 4 people others that do the same. Many hobby breeders don't keep the kids as you start to have line breeding issues so they are either selling kids, does, or bucks. They buy replacements from outside of their herd to get the genetic diversity that they want. Disposable livestock.

 

[Bruce]

@soarwitheagles I was going to say something similar to @babsbag. With the ethnic background of your lamb buyers, I bet you could sell a ton of goats as well! And they would likely be a better choice for clearing your neighbor's 10 acres (assuming nothing ate THEM).

 

[farmerjan]

Yep--there's a hundred different reasons at any given time for selecting what to keep and what to sell.
Cull doesn't have to mean the animal is only good for the grinder. It all depends how high the bar is set for any seller and what he's basing his culling on. Sometimes it's genetics driven (epd stuff--weaning weight/daily rate of gain/milk #s for instance)--often, it's just phenotype driven--the seller doesn't like the hair color or pattern.
Even if it's just a matter of being overstocked, the seller still is usually keeping his best stock and getting rid of the lower echelon stuff.

If I had a good running and good looking Ford and the same condition Caddy, and only wanted to keep one car, I'd probably sell the Ford and keep the cadillac. The Ford would make someone a great car that wanted a Ford, but it's still a cull.

Sorry, I would sell the caddy in a NY minute and keep the Ford.....

 

[greybeard]

My personal issue with buying at auction is that it is a crap shoot

Always. caveat emptor

I try to be honest in my dealings, but understand, that the minute $$ changes hands and the animal is in my trailer, it's MY animal. If it dies on the way home, all I know is it's MY cow that died. I sold a good looking 4 yr old bull a few years ago at auction--he couldn't or wouldn't do his job. I hand delivered a note to the auctioneer that he was being sold to go straight to slaughter--no back-to-farm sale. Auctioneer gave me a dirty look about it because that cut into their commission, but he still brought me $1840 at slaughter price.