Baymule
Herd Master
Quick question about LGD breeds
- Thread starter FRED DESANTIS
- Start date
-
- Tags
- lgd breeds lgd puppies
B&B Happy goats
Herd Master
Mike CHS
Herd Master
I'm not sure how the tangent helped Fred though. Sorry about the hijack Fred.
frustratedearthmother
Herd Master
- Joined
- May 7, 2013
- Messages
- 8,122
- Reaction score
- 14,995
- Points
- 623
So very sorry. I know you have put a lot of time and love into Thor and to have it end up this way is heartbreaking. But, it's understandable because you just can't take that chance...
- Thread starter
- #35
FRED DESANTIS
Loving the herd life
No worries Mike, like you said we all have our problems to deal with at least now I have a different perspective.
Wehner Homestead
Herd Master
So sorry @Mike CHS!! I know that you wouldn’t take this decision lightly but that it has become necessary. to you and Theresa both!
to you and Theresa both!- Thread starter
- #37
FRED DESANTIS
Loving the herd life
Thanks B&B,
I think things will work out fine. Sometimes I get a little frustrated. Today she suprised me she just laid there all calm as I trimmed her toe nails.
Baymule
Herd Master
Fred, don't you worry, she will have trained in no time! 
Stephine
True BYH Addict
I really enjoy reading about the LGD personality. It reminds me of our beardie we had when I was a kid. She would not react to commands in a stern voice. You had to be nice for her to listen. When you called her to come to you on a walk she would always check to see what the problem/reason was, and then decide if that was a reasonable request... Beardies are shepherds, but they were bred to go out by themselves and find the sheep out in the bushes somewhere and bring them back - all without any person guiding them (the opposite of a border collie). I think the more independent a dog can work, the better they are able to make their own decisions, the less they are willing to obey. Makes complete sense, doesn’t it?
Ridgetop
Herd Master
Mike: What a shame for that bad experience. You made the right experience. Dogs have physical ailments like people. He could have had a stroke or mental problem so you did the right thing. it is always sad for the humans involved but the safety of our families is paramount. You did what you could as long as you could.
Fred: LGDs are not obedience dogs, they are employees, partners, soldiers. If I did not have sheep needing protection, I would not own one as a household pet or yard dog no matter how much I love these dogs. When I want a household and family protection dog, I will choose a breed that can be properly obedience trained. I have trained many dogs over the years, these LGDs are not obedience breeds. Sometimes I don't think they are completely dogs at all.
Do not expect behavior from the LGD that their several thousand years of selective breeding has removed from them. They have been bred to instinctively behave in certain ways, and think for themselves. Slavish obedience to commands is not one of these ways. If they believe there is danger, they will not come to your command, even when it is dinner time. Our dogs have stayed out on the field at suppertime if there is a heavy threat level. We have to take their dinner to them, and even then they don't dig in, instead they grab a bite or two then check out things before taking another bite or two.
Having said that, I am devoted to my 3 Anatolian LGDs. They protect the sheep, my property and my family. They adore my grandchildren. However, once started in protection mode, you cannot call them back from their job. These dogs are not pets, they are partners in protecting our livestock. They love to be petted and cuddled, but they are partners with jobs.
Often the only way you will know whether your dogs are working is if you have lost any livestock. If the answer is no, then they are doing their job. An LGD does not hunt down and destroy predators. That is what trained hunting hound packs and guns are for. An LGD lives with his/her charges and prevents predators from killing or molesting them. They do this by marking their territory, announcing that they are on guard in deep voices and keeping their presence visible. A pair of LGDs (or more) will often split the duties between themselves. This is something they do themselves, it is not a trainable thing.
As far as treats, none of our dogs will take treats from strangers, or in strange places. They are polite though, taking the offered treat, then politely placing it on the ground. They will take treats in the house from us, after the sheep are locked up and they are off duty. These are not food motivated dogs after puppyhood. They are praise motivated though.
All our dogs are leash trained. 2 of them are crate trained for emergencies. They are all kennel run trained for their own safety and the safety of any strangers who need to do work on our property. They do not enjoy riding in the car, but can be put in it with effort for trips to the vet. It is stressful for them to leave their territory, and we don't like to take them off premises. Our house dogs enjoyed riding in the car and traveling with us. Our LGDs do not. They are not happy away from their flock.
There is very little obedience training to do with an LGD. Recall (the dog will never be completely reliable and should never be taken outside fencing unless on a leash), Sit (if desired but unnecessary in my opinion), Wait (useful when telling the dog not to go through a door or gate first, or at all) and most important to me, Back Off. Once learned the Back Off command can be used to back a dog away from a ewe and newborn lamb, from another LGD, and lots of other situations. Feeding manners is also important. The LGD (or any dog) must be trained to allow you to remove his food a will while he is eating, and be trained to leave the other dogs food alone as well. We feed all 3 of our Anatolians together with separate bowls about 4-5 feet apart. We watch them eat in order to reinforce the no stealing rule. They have learned to leave another dog's food alone until it is clear that the dog has abandoned his/her bowl.
Our male dog is dominant (an Anatolian trait) and when he was a puppy used to paw at us for attention. Instead of constantly scolding and punishing him for pawing, we would grab his paw and say "Shake, Good Boy". We held his paw until he tried to pull it away and just a bit longer. He learned to only raise his paw on command, turning his dominant action over us into his obedience response to our command, and earning lots of kudos and petting. This reinforces our role as the dominant pack members.
Decide what commands are necessary to your operation, and only try to teach those behaviors. Remember that these dogs will never be obedience contenders, that is not why you bought an LGD.
Fred: LGDs are not obedience dogs, they are employees, partners, soldiers. If I did not have sheep needing protection, I would not own one as a household pet or yard dog no matter how much I love these dogs. When I want a household and family protection dog, I will choose a breed that can be properly obedience trained. I have trained many dogs over the years, these LGDs are not obedience breeds. Sometimes I don't think they are completely dogs at all.
Do not expect behavior from the LGD that their several thousand years of selective breeding has removed from them. They have been bred to instinctively behave in certain ways, and think for themselves. Slavish obedience to commands is not one of these ways. If they believe there is danger, they will not come to your command, even when it is dinner time. Our dogs have stayed out on the field at suppertime if there is a heavy threat level. We have to take their dinner to them, and even then they don't dig in, instead they grab a bite or two then check out things before taking another bite or two.
Having said that, I am devoted to my 3 Anatolian LGDs. They protect the sheep, my property and my family. They adore my grandchildren. However, once started in protection mode, you cannot call them back from their job. These dogs are not pets, they are partners in protecting our livestock. They love to be petted and cuddled, but they are partners with jobs.
Often the only way you will know whether your dogs are working is if you have lost any livestock. If the answer is no, then they are doing their job. An LGD does not hunt down and destroy predators. That is what trained hunting hound packs and guns are for. An LGD lives with his/her charges and prevents predators from killing or molesting them. They do this by marking their territory, announcing that they are on guard in deep voices and keeping their presence visible. A pair of LGDs (or more) will often split the duties between themselves. This is something they do themselves, it is not a trainable thing.
As far as treats, none of our dogs will take treats from strangers, or in strange places. They are polite though, taking the offered treat, then politely placing it on the ground. They will take treats in the house from us, after the sheep are locked up and they are off duty. These are not food motivated dogs after puppyhood. They are praise motivated though.
All our dogs are leash trained. 2 of them are crate trained for emergencies. They are all kennel run trained for their own safety and the safety of any strangers who need to do work on our property. They do not enjoy riding in the car, but can be put in it with effort for trips to the vet. It is stressful for them to leave their territory, and we don't like to take them off premises. Our house dogs enjoyed riding in the car and traveling with us. Our LGDs do not. They are not happy away from their flock.
There is very little obedience training to do with an LGD. Recall (the dog will never be completely reliable and should never be taken outside fencing unless on a leash), Sit (if desired but unnecessary in my opinion), Wait (useful when telling the dog not to go through a door or gate first, or at all) and most important to me, Back Off. Once learned the Back Off command can be used to back a dog away from a ewe and newborn lamb, from another LGD, and lots of other situations. Feeding manners is also important. The LGD (or any dog) must be trained to allow you to remove his food a will while he is eating, and be trained to leave the other dogs food alone as well. We feed all 3 of our Anatolians together with separate bowls about 4-5 feet apart. We watch them eat in order to reinforce the no stealing rule. They have learned to leave another dog's food alone until it is clear that the dog has abandoned his/her bowl.
Our male dog is dominant (an Anatolian trait) and when he was a puppy used to paw at us for attention. Instead of constantly scolding and punishing him for pawing, we would grab his paw and say "Shake, Good Boy". We held his paw until he tried to pull it away and just a bit longer. He learned to only raise his paw on command, turning his dominant action over us into his obedience response to our command, and earning lots of kudos and petting. This reinforces our role as the dominant pack members.
Decide what commands are necessary to your operation, and only try to teach those behaviors. Remember that these dogs will never be obedience contenders, that is not why you bought an LGD.
