Scabby lumps on one side - soremouth

[babsbag]

What a heartbreaking frustrating mess, I am so sorry I would be really careful about the drains and preventing mastitis as I read that staph is a common secondary infection. Some actually suggest that you infuse the udder with antibiotics as a prevention. Are you using any kind of salve on her udder to try and keep the scabs soft?

I felt a little scabby spot on a doe's mouth yesterday and didn't really pay too much attention to it; I will tomorrow. I haven't brought in any new goats since Nov. and no sign of anything on them but I guess now I am paranoid. How long have you had the meat doe and had the buckling been exposed to her? The incubation is only a few days but if a goat is a carrier how do they shed the virus without an active case?

I am very sad for you; I know you have your heart and soul invested in your herd.

 

[Sweetened]

I will infuse the udder, but im afraid of infusing and leaving it without drains as im worried the teat will seal. We have tried several moisturizers and salves and i have found they have made no difference.

The meat doe was brought here in November as well. She has showed no symptoms but, about a month before kids were born she started a cough. The cough is gone now, but could have been the vector as itcan be spread through the air. Coughing into the feeder and it being consumed could have given it to the dams, dams developed sores with minir abrasions from suckling, kids got it when it was shedding.

Or it came from the buckling, but he didnt get it until he started to be left outside to get used to the herd and then he smashed his face on a table and the resulting scab was soremouth infected.

 

[babsbag]

Well if it can be spread in the air by an asymptomatic goat then there is no way to protect a herd other than be entirely closed. And no matter what people say unless you are doing a whole bunch of inbreeding or you never need replacements you can't be entirely closed. You have to at least have a new buck now and then.

I haven't seen that information about spread by air, saliva yes. But I have read that there are carrier animals and that is just confusing to me because if it can only be spread by direct contact with the scabs then how does a carried animal transmit the disease, unless as you say it is by air. I found one article that suggest that the carrier animals actually have it on their skin. Very confusing and a little frightening; especially during kidding season.

 

[Sweetened]

What i meant by air is the saliva which becomes vaporized during coughing or sneezing, thus making it airborne. I think its like Mareks in that it can probably shed in dander or something as well. But if you think about it, and you dont do a full rub down of every goat every day (i have very little contact with meat animals as to not bond with them), it only takes one scab in the arm pit or tail (which looks like a caked tail until you look closer) to drop and get laid on or picked up or what have you.

I believe closed herds are rare, highly inbred and, if you so much as visit another farm or someone drives onto your property to buy, being closed is a moot issue. Anythig 'as the crow flies', literally, i believe can infect another herd.

My ubderstanding is soremouth is something you will eventually come across if youre in goats or sheep long enough. What confuses me is its a virus, but the only treatmeant its said to respond to is gentian violet. Gentian violet fights candida albicans and is an anti fungal.

We are going to try the dialators. It cant hurt anymore than ripping scabs/flesh every day. After 24 hours we should be able to only end up with minimal peeling removing the dialator. She is at 3 weeks with the condition so she should only have another week or so before she clears up.

 

[Pearce Pastures]

I know, I have read that too about the violet treatment and all I could think is that maybe it dried up wounds but it sure doesn't treat the virus. Folks have different levels of biosecurity and I am sure there are those who will have no infections and then someone doing the EXACT same practice might have an outbreak. I do try to keep things clean, use different boots when going to outside farms, washing down new animals and quarantining. "A" for effort but it is no guarantee.

I feel so badly for you. You are doing the best you can and this will pass and hopefully soon. If the dialators seem to help, please share for future reference. Poor gal has got to be miserable. The small cases of Orf I have seen were nowhere near this degree. A friend or ours uses that "vaccine" for this--I use the quotes because it isn't really a vaccine so much as actually GIVING the live virus to your animals, like the past practice of chicken-pox parties. Yeah, it kinda works but the infection can come back and then is contagious all over again.

If it were possible to pen off any that do not have it, you might prevent it from spreading, but as Sweetened already said, the one critter who doesn't have it may also be the one who brought it in as a carrier. The pox virus is not airborne, meaning its mode of transportation is not the air like some viruses in which just breathing can transfer the virus even though no close contact was made with an infected party. Coughs and sneezes can aerosolize the virus though, so if an animal is in range of getting sprayed by a sneeze, droplets of saliva can carry this virus as can making contact with the sores, or even contact with the dried scabs that fall on the ground (which is why it is noted that it can persist in the soil).

 

[bonbean01]

So sorry it has progressed to this point Feel so badly for you. Have had one lamb a few years back that had it on her lips and it went away in a week on its own and no others got it...was hoping the rest of yours would not get it either. Has to be heartbreaking for you....hoping you have done all you can to keep from getting infected YOURSELF!!! They say it is zoonotic and people can get it, although my not so bright sister in law was kissing that lamb on the lips and by some miracle she didn't get it....so...not sure how easy it transfers to humans?

 

[Sweetened]

This disease baffles me, I think it has been ill studied and needs to be looked into more. They tell you to keep the scabs moist -- if Gentian Violet dries scabs and is effective, then it's counter-intuitive. It's non responsive to Anti-Virals like Lavender and Oregano Oil, and Grapefruit Seed Extract (A notorious anti-fungal as well that targets Candida Albicans in the same way Violet does. GSE helped ONE girl, one. It's not responsive to conventional medications either, as it's a virus, and antibiotics target bacterial life rather than viruses. Probiotics don't work, it's not effected by gut flora, though I did not try rubbing the teats down with Yogurt -- perhaps I will if this ever happens again. I found one article that claims if you 'teat wash' 2 or 3 times daily starting the day you have kids on the ground, it'll prevent the infection from reaching the udder, yet no other article says that, and how healthy is that for kids? The kids on dams NEVER had sores on or in their mouth, I checked.

So a virus, not healed or assisted or thwarted by antivirals, antibacterials, or antifungals with the exclusion of gentian violet -- I would wonder if it's not the dye that inhibits growth. Much like Salmonella Bacteria is blocked by the pigment in blueberries, I would wonder if the same is the case for Gentian.

I thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers. I hope I can care for my baby better than I can my goats, or there's no help for me at all! My Mom found out one of the girls she worked with had a kid with Chicken Pox and I became that kids best playmate until I contracted it from that group. Now they promote the Chicken Pox Vaccine, which can (but doesn't always) prevent a child from catching it, but makes them infectious to everyone else, including adults who may not have caught it -- not such a good idea. A Sore Mouth Vaccine may be helpful for me in the future as it's said to reduce severity of any outbreaks, but any animal with resistance to the virus will then be infected and any evolutionary advancement has been lost.

I will let everyone know how teat dilation goes. She could use the process anyway considering her orifices are incredibly small. I have been washing my hands after handling goats and for picking scabs, milking and doing moisturizer rub downs (I've reverted to Swiss Alps Intensive Healing) I wear neoprene gloves, since latex will kill me.

 

[Baymule]

Is there a test to determine if a goat or sheep has orf?

 

[babsbag]

One of the articles that I read also said you could use campho phonique, but I am assuming that that is to dry it up not keep it moist. Very frustrating I'm sure. I had fowl pox go through my flock once, reminds me of the same kind of sores. I also read that there is a malignant form of orf and one lady lost 50 goats from it so I guess it is not just the "bother" that I always thought it was. I am very sad for you; I can't imagine your pain.

 

[Sweetened]

I do wonder if this is a particularly bad strain. There are several mutations of the disease.

Yes, Baymule, orf is identified under a microscope via scabs.