Bruce
Herd Master
Maybe you @greybeard, way too far for me!some of us might travel a good ways to sneak in and catch largemouth bass...
Senile Texas Aggie - comic relief for the rest of you
- Thread starter Senile_Texas_Aggie
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Senile_Texas_Aggie
Herd Master
Hello, all of my friends on BYH.
I haven't posted for awhile because of a visit from my wife's next older sister and her husband, who recently purchased an RV and so wanted to pay a visit to us. We went to Branson, Mo, with them (their idea to go there). My wife and I had never visited Branson, so we were willing to tag along. I had the foresight to insist that my wife and I go in our own vehicle, as the idea of 4 people and 1 dog in a 34 foot RV with 1 shower and a hide-a-bed for my wife and me to sleep on, was not exactly my idea of fun. I am glad we did that, as Branson was not a place I would ever want to visit again. (If you don't like going to shows -- we don't -- then you won't like it that much, either.) We left after 1 night. My wife's sister and her husband stopped back by on their way back to their home in Texarkana, TX, for more visiting, so we have only been able to get back to our routine in the past few days. My tractor is still in the shop having the grapple installed and the FEL bucket tilt internal leak fixed, so not much work around the farm.
One thing I have worked on are the lights in the shop. At one time there were 6 mercury vapor lights installed, but by the time I bought it there were only 3, with the other 3 having been removed. Then 1 of those 3 quit working, so I only had 2 overhead lights working. I don't know about you folks, but I don't like mercury lights -- they take a while to come on, they flicker, and especially they buzz. I decided to put up LED lights instead. So I bought 2 LED shop lights at Lowes, just to see how they would work putting out enough light, intending on putting them in the middle section where there are no lights, and if those worked just fine, then add more, eventually replacing the 2 mercury vapor lights. When I went to install the first LED light, I turned off all of the light switches (I did not turn off the circuit breaker -- none of the breakers is labeled in the main panel), got up on my 12 foot step ladder, and removed the cover box to expose the wires. When I started to install the wires for the LED lights in the place where there was no longer a mercury vapor light, imagine my surprise when I touched the white wire with one hand while grounding myself to the metal circuit box -- I got bit! "What the <<insert appropriate expletive here>>?" I got my volt meter out, turned on the light switch for that light, and measured 220V from black to white. "Mercury lights are 220V !?!?" Yep, at least these are. So now I am not sure how to wire up LED lights unless I buy some LED lights designed for 220V circuits, or I rewire the circuit to be 110V and replace the mercury vapor lights all at once. Anyone have any suggestions?
Miss @Mini Horses and Miss @farmerjan, you 2 look like you are going to be impacted quite a bit by hurricane Florence. Do you think you will be OK, or will you need to evacuate? I was a bit worried about Mr. @Mike CHS but I saw elsewhere that he doesn't think he will be affected. I even wonder if maybe Mr. @Bruce will be impacted, should the hurricane veer toward the New England area. I hope all of you will be safe.
For what it is worth, I am currently lurking on one of you folks' journals -- I am about halfway through -- but unlike I did with Mr. @Latestarter, I will not say who it is until the end. But don't worry -- I am sure that the previous folks that I spied on, namely Miss @Rammy, Miss @goatgurl, Miss @Ridgetop, and Mr. @Latestarter, will be able to send to you the names of their therapists that they are seeing to recover from the lurking, who will be able to help.
Bye for now.
Senile Texas Aggie
I haven't posted for awhile because of a visit from my wife's next older sister and her husband, who recently purchased an RV and so wanted to pay a visit to us. We went to Branson, Mo, with them (their idea to go there). My wife and I had never visited Branson, so we were willing to tag along. I had the foresight to insist that my wife and I go in our own vehicle, as the idea of 4 people and 1 dog in a 34 foot RV with 1 shower and a hide-a-bed for my wife and me to sleep on, was not exactly my idea of fun. I am glad we did that, as Branson was not a place I would ever want to visit again. (If you don't like going to shows -- we don't -- then you won't like it that much, either.) We left after 1 night. My wife's sister and her husband stopped back by on their way back to their home in Texarkana, TX, for more visiting, so we have only been able to get back to our routine in the past few days. My tractor is still in the shop having the grapple installed and the FEL bucket tilt internal leak fixed, so not much work around the farm.
One thing I have worked on are the lights in the shop. At one time there were 6 mercury vapor lights installed, but by the time I bought it there were only 3, with the other 3 having been removed. Then 1 of those 3 quit working, so I only had 2 overhead lights working. I don't know about you folks, but I don't like mercury lights -- they take a while to come on, they flicker, and especially they buzz. I decided to put up LED lights instead. So I bought 2 LED shop lights at Lowes, just to see how they would work putting out enough light, intending on putting them in the middle section where there are no lights, and if those worked just fine, then add more, eventually replacing the 2 mercury vapor lights. When I went to install the first LED light, I turned off all of the light switches (I did not turn off the circuit breaker -- none of the breakers is labeled in the main panel), got up on my 12 foot step ladder, and removed the cover box to expose the wires. When I started to install the wires for the LED lights in the place where there was no longer a mercury vapor light, imagine my surprise when I touched the white wire with one hand while grounding myself to the metal circuit box -- I got bit! "What the <<insert appropriate expletive here>>?" I got my volt meter out, turned on the light switch for that light, and measured 220V from black to white. "Mercury lights are 220V !?!?" Yep, at least these are. So now I am not sure how to wire up LED lights unless I buy some LED lights designed for 220V circuits, or I rewire the circuit to be 110V and replace the mercury vapor lights all at once. Anyone have any suggestions?
Miss @Mini Horses and Miss @farmerjan, you 2 look like you are going to be impacted quite a bit by hurricane Florence. Do you think you will be OK, or will you need to evacuate? I was a bit worried about Mr. @Mike CHS but I saw elsewhere that he doesn't think he will be affected. I even wonder if maybe Mr. @Bruce will be impacted, should the hurricane veer toward the New England area. I hope all of you will be safe.
For what it is worth, I am currently lurking on one of you folks' journals -- I am about halfway through -- but unlike I did with Mr. @Latestarter, I will not say who it is until the end. But don't worry -- I am sure that the previous folks that I spied on, namely Miss @Rammy, Miss @goatgurl, Miss @Ridgetop, and Mr. @Latestarter, will be able to send to you the names of their therapists that they are seeing to recover from the lurking, who will be able to help.
Bye for now.
Senile Texas Aggie
Mini Horses
Herd Master
Well, Mr Aggie, thank you for thinking of me. I do feel that I will survive Flo without a great amount of problem. I'm prepared for what WAS predicted and now, seems way less will arrive. Happy for me, sad for those others getting her visit.
As to the circuit box, lights, being marked -- here's a hint. Turn everything on. Then go to the circuit box and cut off a breaker. See what is no longer working..mark the breaker. Of course, there way be an outlet you don't see as part of that circuit if nothing plugged in to stop working, but it's one way to identify. Best -- have electrician test and mark. AND you can cut main while you work.
Bet the jolt woke you up! But dangerous way.
I do feel that I will survive Flo without a great amount of problem. I'm prepared for what WAS predicted and now, seems way less will arrive. Happy for me, sad for those others getting her visit.As to the circuit box, lights, being marked -- here's a hint. Turn everything on. Then go to the circuit box and cut off a breaker. See what is no longer working..mark the breaker. Of course, there way be an outlet you don't see as part of that circuit if nothing plugged in to stop working, but it's one way to identify. Best -- have electrician test and mark. AND you can cut main while you work.
Bet the jolt woke you up! But dangerous way.
Mike CHS
Herd Master
Even with the shift in the storm track we don't expect anything except hopefully some rain at some point. What family we have left in Charleston are already heading out of town so everyone is accounted for. I spent so many years in hurricane that we stay prepped with or without a storm coming to town.
Bruce
Herd Master
We won't be seeing anything from Florence. WAY too far south and heading for GA and TN.
Regarding the LED shop lights. I have 2 dual 4' that I got at Costco. They are great. We have an energy saving program in the state paid with "fees" on electric bills and they use some of it to discount LEDs. Makes them VERY affordable.
A 220V circuit SHOULD have 4 wires (known as 3 wire since they don't count the ground) -
Regarding the LED shop lights. I have 2 dual 4' that I got at Costco. They are great. We have an energy saving program in the state paid with "fees" on electric bills and they use some of it to discount LEDs. Makes them VERY affordable.
A 220V circuit SHOULD have 4 wires (known as 3 wire since they don't count the ground) -
- common - white
- ground - green
- hot - red
- hot - black
greybeard
Herd Master
Sounds like whoever originally wired in the 240v Mercury lights just switched one leg in order to turn them on/off.
You can do what Bruce suggested ONLY if you also have a neutral wire. (You cannot use ground for a neutral in an outbuilding!)
No neutral = no 120v.
Now, your next problem is that they used a white wire for one of their hot 120v legs, and white is always neutral, not hot.
Problem after that is your circuit will be unbalanced if you are tapping 120v off the existing 240V circuit to power your 120v led lights.
Seeing a picture of the dist panel (with the cover off) where the breaker for the mercury lights are wired to the breaker would be helpful.
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greybeard
Herd Master
Not necessarily. Lots of 240V circuits are run with no neutral (white). Unless local code calls for it, neutral (what you call common) plays no role or function in a pure 240V single ph circuit.
Donna R. Raybon
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Yeah, figure out what is what and label! Never know when that info can come in handy. We put ground fault breaker on circuit in bathroom, and circuit for outside of house outlet. At the barn I had one on outlet I used to clip goats and disbudding kids.
My father drummed into my head to pull breaker and have it in hand before touching wiring. He lost a friend while rewiring house and another friend lost finger due to wedding ring arcing. So glad you were not hurt!
My father drummed into my head to pull breaker and have it in hand before touching wiring. He lost a friend while rewiring house and another friend lost finger due to wedding ring arcing. So glad you were not hurt!
Bruce
Herd Master
That would be scary. Someone could use 2/12 wire and use both the white and black as hot. Easy to ASSUME it is a 110V circuit.
greybeard
Herd Master
No one that is very familiar with electrical circuits ever assumes that.
It used to be done a lot on 240v circuits and still is allowed in some instances, tho not as often as in years past. The old rule was if white is used as a hot conductor, black tape has to be wrapped on the white wire at both ends (and all junctions).
It is allowed in a 240v circuit and in 120v circuit where a light was switched from 2 different locations. I have that arrangment on my stairs, with a switch at the top and one at the bottom that both control a single light, and another similar setup entering the back door into the laundry room. 2 switches, one light. there are white wires in that circuit that are reidentified with black tape or black paint and are current carrying conductors.
The only time a neutral wire is required on a 240V circuit is somewhere like a kitchen range/oven where the burners are 240V and the lights and displays are 120V...same with a clothes dryer circuit.
A typical 240-volt, 30-amp circuit includes a double-pole circuit breaker, which has two terminals for the two hot wires. The wires usually are black or red, but one may be white if it is labeled as hot with a black or red stripe near each end. A 240-volt, 3-wire receptacle has three prongs (two hot and one ground) to accept a 3-prong plug. Plugs and receptacles for a 240/250-volt circuit can come in a number of configurations.
Note: New electric ranges and clothes dryers require circuits that provide 120 volts and 240 volts at the receptacle. These use four wires—black (hot), red (hot), white (neutral), and green (ground). The neutral wire is designed to carry an unbalanced load between the two phases of the circuit. The installation is similar to a 3-wire system but includes the fourth, neutral, wire that connects to the neutral bus bar in the panel and the neutral terminal on the receptacle.
Most people today, use 3 wires on 240v circuits to outbuildings or to equipment like a downhole (submersible) well pump, but stipulate red/black and green. hot, hot and ground.
The outbuilding will get it's own ground rod since national electric code forbids ground and neutral being bonded together any where except first means of disconnect after the service enters the house. (usually the main dist panel closest to the electric meter.
https://ask-the-electrician.com/nec-electrical-code-for-re-identifying-ungrounded-conductor/
One thing you CANNOT do, is use 3 white wires and re-identify 2 of them as hot conductors.
https://www.ecmweb.com/qampa/stumped-code-6
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