Senile Texas Aggie - comic relief for the rest of you

[greybeard]

SenileAggie...One thing you might consider, is using a step down (240v to 120v) transformer to power your 120V led lights. Leds don't draw much current so it shouldn't take a big honkin transformer to do what you need, but you will need to calculate the total load that the xformer will be supplying.

 

[greybeard]

Now that I have a bit more time, ...for Bruce..
https://classes4contractors.com/please-provide-the-proper-identification/
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/95164/does-this-wiring-meet-the-nec-standards
http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com/Re-Identifying+white+conductors


From National Electric Code:

200.7 Use of Insulation of a White or Gray Color or with Three Continuous White or Gray Stripes



(C) Circuits of 50 Volts or More.



The use of insulation that is white or gray or that has three continuous white or gray stripes for other than a grounded conductor for circuits of 50 volts or more shall be permitted only as in (1) and (2).



(1) If part of a cable assembly that has the insulation permanently reidentified to indicate its use as an ungrounded conductor by marking tape, painting, or other effective means at its termination and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible. Identification shall encircle the insulation and shall be a color other than white, gray, or green. If used for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops, the reidentified conductor with white or gray insulation or three continuous white or gray stripes shall be used only for the supply to the switch, but not as a return conductor from the switch to the outlet.

That white wire is also supposed to be re-identified as 'hot' (by paint or tape) at it's final termination point as well as in any openable junction box along the circuit.

 

[Senile_Texas_Aggie]

All,

Wow! So much helpful advice! I feel so thankful! Now for a bit more info.

Once I figured out that the light circuit was 220V instead of 110V, then that made figuring out which circuit breakers in the main panel controlled the lights, as 2 circuit breaks would be paired together. Since there were only 3 pairs of circuit breakers paired together, that made finding the correct breaker fairly easy. It turned out to be the first pair I tried, namely 1/3. So now I don't have to worry about being shocked as easily now that I know the circuit breakers that control the lights.

As for the white wires, NONE of them were marked with black, red, or any other color. ALL of them were just plain old white. There were also no red wires in the box (which, given no red wire was why I was expecting white to be neutral, not hot, and thus 110V, not 220V). I was unaware that it was acceptable to use white as a hot wire, even with a color marking, but had I seen such a color marking on the white wire, I might have been a lot more cautious and stopped and did some research, instead of getting shocked the way I did.

As for using step-down transformers, do those provide a neutral leg and a 110V leg, or would each leg be 55-60V? I don't want anyone else to get shocked the way I did, so if they do not provide a neutral leg, then I may rewire the main panel to be 110V instead of 220V and replace all of the mercury vapor lights at once.

Again, thanks to everyone for all of your helpful comments.

Senile Texas Aggie

 

[goatgurl]

aggie I only have one piece of advice. All Phase Electric, greenwood, ark. nice guys, do good work and beats the heck out of electrocution

 

[greybeard]

As for using step-down transformers, do those provide a neutral leg and a 110V leg, or would each leg be 55-60V? I don't want anyone else to get shocked the way I did, so if they do not provide a neutral leg, then I may rewire the main panel to be 110V instead of 220V and replace all of the mercury vapor lights at once.

Rewire to 120V is what I would probably do, as it would be the easiest, provided there are at least 3 wires in the existing romex or cableway wires. (2 conductors and a ground.) You will make one of the current conductors the neutral wire. Make sure you change the breaker to the appropriate size rating, since the current wire size is probably going to be larger capacity than what the amp load of your led lighting will be. (that's ok...you can use bigger wire...cannot use smaller ones)

As far as the transformer, I mentioned it IF you were wanting to keep some of your 240v lights at least temporarily. I'm unaware of any transformer that provides 120V without a neutral. What would be the point of doing so?

There is some wiring options with most Xsformers that have a 120v secondary. Many, allow you to tap 240v off the outputs, while also getting 120V with a neutral by how you connect the wires and windings.

Transformers that take 2 wire 240v and convert to 120v with neutral are pretty common, as they are used in and for lots of things. A water heater powered by 240v that you want to connect to a timer but don't want to buy an expensive 240v timer? Use a transformer. Most will give you at least 2 usable 120v connections.

240 to 120 transformers get their neutral by center tapping the output windings, which is the about the same thing the power companies do to provide your home with a neutral and 2 hot 120v lines to make up your 240v 200A service. (notice, most of the time, there are only 2 lines coming to the transformer for your home, but 3 lines come out and go to your meter and service loop)


For 240 to 120 with neutral:

The diagrams show L or H designations on the line (input) side, and X markings on the output side. For most, you connect x2/x4 which then becomes neutral. x1/x3 connected will be 120v output, but always stick with the instructions or schematic on the data plate of the transformer you end up with.


Other home user 240 to 120 transformers just come as a completely enclosed unit, where you have 2 outlets on the front. (these are sometimes a bit noisy with an annoying transformer hum... )

 

[farmerjan]

God Bless electricians.....I will gladly pay them. I hate electricity anywhere except where the lights and appliances work and I am terrified of it. I don't even like the accidental shocks from electric fencing.... Never have to worry about me trying to change, fix, spice or anything else.

 

[Bruce]

Rewire to 120V is what I would probably do, as it would be the easiest, provided there are at least 3 wires in the existing romex or cableway wires. (2 conductors and a ground.)

Me too. If you have no need for 240V, convert. Those LEDs use so little power you could likely run every one of them on a single circuit replacing all the mercury vapor lights. Of course there is value in having lights on multiple circuits, you can still see if you have need to shut off one circuit.

 

[greybeard]

Psst..hey you..Yeah you... that smells like mud, wood chips and tadpoles...
wanna buy some incandescents? I got the real thing here, not those chinese things...good Sylvannias from 10 years back before all those squiggly bulbs and all that energy saving crap got shoved down our throats. Just try one..go ahead, take it home and try it...bask it it's wonderful natural light and see if it doesn't bring back the days of your youth. I'll be here tomorrow, and everyday..... 'cause I know you're gonna want more of 'em. I got cases and cases of 'em.
(tell your friends)

 

[Bruce]

Actually, no thanks. Not fond of the CFLs but love the LEDs. Have gotten rid of all the CFLs.

 

[Senile_Texas_Aggie]

All,

Thanks for your all of your suggestions. I have decided to convert the circuit to 110V from 220V. When I go to pick up my tractor from the dealer in Alma, AR, I will swing by Lowes and pick up 3 more LED shop lights. Then one day I will open up the main panel and move the white wire of the 220V circuit from one phase to the neutral and hang all of the LED lights. Miss @farmerjan, as Mr. @greybeard might say, "I ain't skeerd." (Of course, there is one big difference between him and me -- he knows what he is doing and I don't! Maybe I should be "skeerd"!)

Mr. @Bruce, sir, I am with you -- I don't like CFLs, either, and would use them last, given my choice of LEDs (first), then incandescent, then CFL).

Senile Texas Aggie