Settle a Debate about weaning....

[Roll farms]

Bottle babies do have a harder time and they just don't grow out the same. It takes them a year to catch up to normal weight.

That's not necessarily accurate. I have a pasture full of FAT does, all were bottle babies. It depends on your methods.

Several of our meat-breed kids get GCH and RGCH (raised elsewhere).
Underweight wethers wouldn't place well.

As to the brat part....I like my goats attentive, funny, loving, in the way.
Beats the heck out of chasing the truly wild ones. I like them annoying.
To each his own.

I've also never fed a bottle baby in the middle of the night....ever. They get fed before I go to bed and again when I get up.

Our nubian kids avg. 6-7#, boers avg. 8-9#, and boer x kiko avg. 11#.
Big healthy kids from the start help a lot.

 

[trestlecreek]

"That's not necessarily accurate. I have a pasture full of FAT does, all were bottle babies. It depends on your methods."

Yes, I agree. Here, I have tracked the growing weights of all dam raised kids, and found that my (6 1/2 # pygmy at birth!), just did not measure up during the first 8 months. Of course I did not feed her her mothers milk..... I fed her half/half and still was not able to put on the baby weight I like to see. Her prior year siblings whom were dam raised were remarkably much nicer and grew out better than the curve compared to other dams/w kids.
Bottle babies will/can catch up,...they just don't grow at the same rates.

Roll, have you been charting your dam raised kids to compare? I would be interested to learn of a better way..... or a trick or secret to success?

 

[cmjust0]

Does the doe have a disease, like CAE, Johnes, or CL?
That is the primary reason people pull the kids at birth.

That's not true.. Most folks I know who pull at birth do so because they want the kids to be bonded to them, not to their goat-mama, and because they want to begin milking the doe immediately.

You do not have to pull them to milk the goat or to make the kids friendly.

I can vouch for that.. We have dam-raised and bottle-raised kids who are all equally sweet.

Otherwise, the dam raises them. Dam raised kids are the way to go in my book.

I am one to go against pulling the kids at birth unless you absolutely have to. Bottle babies do have a harder time and they just don't grow out the same. It takes them a year to catch up to normal weight.

I disagree 100% here.. Bottle babies get a measured amount of milk on a regular schedule which, in my experience, tends them toward a more consistent growth pattern. Whereas, in dam-raised kids, you might get one that knocks the other(s) out of the way and wind up with one big kid and one runty kid..

Bottle babies are brats and generally grow up to be brats.
Bottle babies think YOU are their momma.

Depends on how you look at it... Yes, they think you're mama, but that doesn't necessarily make them 'brats'.. Personally, I think it makes them really friendly.

You have to get up every 2-3 hours during the night for the first week.

No, you don't.. While 4x/day feedings are probably optimal, I've raised several from birth on 3x/day because that's what I could manage. I also cut them down to 2x/day as soon as I possibly can. Never been a problem.

Bottle feeding is a TON of work and mentally it can drain the human(especially when you think they are cute and need their momma, who would be you!!)

Yes...it's a lot of work.

Bear in mind, though, that the OP wasn't getting opinions on dam-raised vs. bottle-raised.....she was asking about snatch-rearing vs. letting the kids nurse a week and then pulling them.

Clearly, she's planning to bottle raise either way. I think that's why you have so many people advocating that she snatch-rear, because it's just SO MUCH EASIER to do it from birth than to try to switch a kid to a bottle.

Did you see my avatar? That would be my first bottle baby in 13 years of having goats and I pray to the good lord that will be the last!!

That's quite an accomplishment! I've bottle raised more than I planned to bottle raise..... :/

 

[trestlecreek]

Again, just my opinion on this. Good to hear things work out well for others. I'm not saying it's the end of the world to do the bottle kids, I'm just saying there is a pretty good difference between dam/bottle raised kids.

Yes, some people love the bottle kids, they do act differently, which is cute in a way, but mine reminds me of one of my own children and to me, it's a nightmare!! I have 4 "human" kids now( I add the goat in to the # now), and that's more than plenty wanting me/expecting of me all the time! LOL. Pulls at the apron more than I like. My bottle baby believes she is human and would rather contribute to a human dynamic. It breaks my heart to see that, I can pull a tear right now thinking about her.

cm, yes I'm proud to say I never did have to bottle feed!!! From where I come from, if you have to bottle raise, that means there is something wrong in the herd. Most of my dams have been excellent mothers and have always raised beautiful healthy kids.

I was ashamed as a herd keeper to say that I had to raise this little baby due to the doe having a uterine rupture while giving birth.

 

[Roll farms]

Roll, have you been charting your dam raised kids to compare? I would be interested to learn of a better way..... or a trick or secret to success?

ALL my kids are bottle raised. Started that for CAE prevention.
Dairy breeders are big on it, and when I started there wasn't a vet around who had a clue where to send CAE tests in...seriously...I had one draw samples to send in, and 6 mos. later they sent me a refund check because they never DID send the samples in for testing.

The first question I always got from dairy goat buyers was, "Are you CAE free or do you bottle raise on past. milk?" I quickly surmised that if I wanted to sell kids to 'serious' dairy folks, bottle raising them was the way to go....

NOW my vet can test them, but...we have some CL positive does and the only way my conscience will let me sell kids is if I catch every one at birth and bottle raise them in a 'clean' barn until they sell.

I have no choice...I bottle raise, or I kill 15 or so beautiful does and start over.

I use straight goat milk (pastuerized, of course) unless there's a shortage, then I use whole Vitamin D milk to make the goat's milk go further.

 

[trestlecreek]

Ahhh, okay, you're using goats milk! I follow ya now.

 

[ksalvagno]

Wouldn't goats milk be the first choice in feeding the kids? This is the first year I have used the powdered stuff for alpacas. I have to say it has worked fine and the weight gain has been fine but my first preference is actual goat milk. You do have to make sure that the powdered is completely mixed or you will have problems. I put it in my blender every time before I gave it to a cria.

 

[broke down ranch]

Roll farms, may I ask why you pastuerize? I haven't ever pasteurized mine and was wondering the necessity? Not saying wrong or right, just why?

 

[Roll farms]

Roll farms, may I ask why you pastuerize?

For CAE prevention...Here's a linkie or two.

http://www.vet.uga.edu/VPP/clerk/logan/index.php
http://www.goatworld.com/articles/cae/cae-waddl.shtml

 

[goat lady]

So I am gathering that is a matter of opinion to pull right away or wait a week or two. I am home all day and out several times collecting eggs and just checking on everyone. My human kids are grown and one of them left for college and left me with two bottle babies. So I take care of them. But we have not had a new baby that we took right off the doe and started on the bottle. I have one doe that is due soon and one in Nov. I know I can't keep every little one that I have so I was just wondering what would be best on the momma and the kid if I should pull them right away or wait a week or two.