Severe Bloat (Sad Ending - Page 4)

[Goatmasta]

Livinwright --- What are the risk of giving PenG to a expecting doe?

 

[maggies.family]

I was reading this thread last night before bed. Today I was interviewing teachers at school and kept thinking about Minnie and how she was doing. I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Livinwright --- What are the risk of giving PenG to a expecting doe?

x 2

I don't remember ever reading that Pen G can be unsafe for pregnant does. Only Tetracyclines. Given the recent events I'd be in "better safe than sorry" mode myself.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Vet is too far away to get anything to Minnie or Daisy ASAP... thinking we will go the Tylan 200 route... especially since I KNOW this is a product our TSC actually carries!

I highly recommend to folks that if they are aware that there is a limited selection of commonly used non-prescription meds available in their area that you order them online and stock your medicine cabinet before there is an emergency.

The rumen flora takes time to adjust to new foods. Too much of any new food (particularly fruits- like mango) fed inconsistently and without working them up slowly could easily have caused bloat. I'm not against feeding whole foods, but the rumen is finely tuned and should be treated with care in order to remain balanced. While the vet missed the mark in suggesting that goats required only hay and water, it still affords an opportunity to examine the safety and effectiveness of your current nutrition management.

We are thinking it was either the dose of Ivomec she got 2 days ago or the alfalfa we picked up and started feeding a couple days ago that caused the bloat... and not the produce scraps/trimmings/"waste" which they get for 3-4 days in a row every week.
The mangos were available in the bucket of scraps Friday through Sunday, the alfalfa was given(mixed in with their normal hay) Monday & Tuesday, Wednesday she got a dose of Ivomec 1% Injectable for cattle(given orally, as suggested), she really started acting odd yesterday, so I gave the molassess/baking soda/nutri-drench mix, and she started looking better... So I gave her a selection of her normal faves(molasses misted alfalfa, regular hay, a black birch branch, etc)... I wasn't expecting her to be so horrible this morning... though looking back I should have only given her the regular hay until she was back to 100%.

I've never heard of Ivomec creating an issue with bloat. Fresh cut alfalfa, on the other hand, I've seen plenty of references to it causing bloat. Was it this year's hay? If it is I'd store that alfalfa for a couple months before trying to feed it again.

I know your goats get produce scraps every week BUT are they always the same scraps? You can't lump "produce" all together as one food item in terms of the development of rumen flora... If this week you have an excess of broccoli and next week you have an excess of mango those are not the same foods. Your other goats may have had access to the same amount, but that doesn't mean that if one goat bloated they're all going to at the same time.

This could easily have been a compounded problem... a little of this food they're not used to, a little of that food they're not used to- that can add up to a rumen full of foods for which the rumen doesn't have the appropriate bacteria to digest properly.

 

[SuburbanFarmChic]

I also give lots of random produce. Pounds and pounds of it at times. But we have 3 different supplements that have probiotics in them and I tend to top dress every couple batches of produce or hit their grain with it every so often to make sure their rumens are up to the task. (The sticky juicy fruit is also a great way to get AC and other stuff into them)

 

[Livinwright Farm]

I highly recommend to folks that if they are aware that there is a limited selection of commonly used non-prescription meds available in their area that you order them online and stock your medicine cabinet before there is an emergency.

The rumen flora takes time to adjust to new foods. Too much of any new food (particularly fruits- like mango) fed inconsistently and without working them up slowly could easily have caused bloat. I'm not against feeding whole foods, but the rumen is finely tuned and should be treated with care in order to remain balanced. While the vet missed the mark in suggesting that goats required only hay and water, it still affords an opportunity to examine the safety and effectiveness of your current nutrition management.

We are thinking it was either the dose of Ivomec she got 2 days ago or the alfalfa we picked up and started feeding a couple days ago that caused the bloat... and not the produce scraps/trimmings/"waste" which they get for 3-4 days in a row every week.
The mangos were available in the bucket of scraps Friday through Sunday, the alfalfa was given(mixed in with their normal hay) Monday & Tuesday, Wednesday she got a dose of Ivomec 1% Injectable for cattle(given orally, as suggested), she really started acting odd yesterday, so I gave the molassess/baking soda/nutri-drench mix, and she started looking better... So I gave her a selection of her normal faves(molasses misted alfalfa, regular hay, a black birch branch, etc)... I wasn't expecting her to be so horrible this morning... though looking back I should have only given her the regular hay until she was back to 100%.

I've never heard of Ivomec creating an issue with bloat. Fresh cut alfalfa, on the other hand, I've seen plenty of references to it causing bloat. Was it this year's hay? If it is I'd store that alfalfa for a couple months before trying to feed it again.

I know your goats get produce scraps every week BUT are they always the same scraps? You can't lump "produce" all together as one food item in terms of the development of rumen flora... If this week you have an excess of broccoli and next week you have an excess of mango those are not the same foods. Your other goats may have had access to the same amount, but that doesn't mean that if one goat bloated they're all going to at the same time.

This could easily have been a compounded problem... a little of this food they're not used to, a little of that food they're not used to- that can add up to a rumen full of foods for which the rumen doesn't have the appropriate bacteria to digest properly.

The produce bags we get from hannafords are pretty predictable as far as contents go... one time we found a papaya in the mix and gave it in small amounts(seeds went to the chickens)
Once there were 2 cherimoya fruit.. same deal, a little bit at a time.. the tropical fruit really is the only thing unpredictable in the mix.
Everything else is greens(lettuce, sometimes cabbage & broccoli(given in moderation), greeb & yellow beens, chard, escarole, kale, chickory, celery, peppers are all standard unsurprising items.
While the alfalfa way not fresh(dried, cut, and shrinkwrapped), we still believe it was either this or the oral administered Ivomec that was the culprit.
PS: If anyone reads my comments in the feeding section, they will know that our herd gets Probiotics regularly to keep their rumens functioning properly.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

I was reading this thread last night before bed. Today I was interviewing teachers at school and kept thinking about Minnie and how she was doing. I am so sorry for your loss.

thank you

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Livinwright --- What are the risk of giving PenG to a expecting doe?

uhh... milk withdrawal time, and giving antibiotics for stress is not something we agree with.
We can give her lavender and other supplements for stress, that won't cause her babies to ingest antibiotics unneccessarilly.

 

[Goatmasta]

Livinwright -- Ivermec does not cause bloat. Too much produce will. I have been drenching ivermec for years and not one time have I ever had a bloat issue with ivermec. It is an unfounded idea. If you will look at the thread on feed cost, you will see that a proper "goat feed" ration with hay, minerals, and meds is not that costly. I would suggest goat feed. I have never had a adult goat bloat on hay and goat feed. As far as that goes I have never had an adult goat bloat period. Take a good look at your feeding practices.

 

[Goatmasta]

Livinwright --- What are the risk of giving PenG to a expecting doe?

uhh... milk withdrawal time, and giving antibiotics for stress is not something we agree with.
We can give her lavender and other supplements for stress, that won't cause her babies to ingest antibiotics unneccessarilly.

That is not a risk in my opinion, the small amount of pen that might actually get to the kids will not hurt them in anyway. However, the illness of the doe will. That is the risk here not meds.