Severe Bloat (Sad Ending - Page 4)

[Livinwright Farm]

Livinwright -- Ivermec does not cause bloat. Too much produce will. I have been drenching ivermec for years and not one time have I ever had a bloat issue with ivermec. It is an unfounded idea. If you will look at the thread on feed cost, you will see that a proper "goat feed" ration with hay, minerals, and meds is not that costly. I would suggest goat feed. I have never had a adult goat bloat on hay and goat feed. As far as that goes I have never had an adult goat bloat period. Take a good look at your feeding practices.

Not every goat is the same, much like people. You cannot exclude the possibility that the Ivomec is what caused her to bloat just because none of your animals have.

You are entitled to your opinion on the matter, but do not suggest that our farm's feeding practices are in any way harming our animals! If you look at every thread I have posted on regarding what we feed our goats, you will see that they get Noble Goat or Dumor pelleted goat feed, Probiotic podwer, Free choice: Browse, Manna Pro Goat Mineral, salt block, water and good quality hay. So, unless you are seriously suggesting that it takes a goat 3-4 days to process produce(mostly corn husks), it was not the produce that caused her to bloat.

As I stated previously, all of our animals get produce for 3-4 days every week, and none of them have EVER had a problem with it. Please remember what the moderators & administrators say, which is that we are to respect each other's feeding & handling practices.
Suggestions - I don't mind.
Being told that I am causing harm to my animals when I most certainly am not- THAT I mind.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

I have been drenching ivermec for years and not one time have I ever had a bloat issue with ivermec.

Not every goat is the same, much like people. You cannot exclude the possibility that the Ivomec is what caused her to bloat just because none of your animals have.

As I stated previously, all of our animals get produce for 3-4 days every week, and none of them have EVER had a problem with it.

 

[helmstead]

I suggest that your farm's feeding practices killed your doe. Ivermec doesn't cause bloat, but it CAN cause sudden anemia from worm-dump, which by your vet's account is not what this doe died from. Instead, she died from bloat, which was caused by something in her diet (and, no, orally administered Ivermec doesn't count as part of the diet).

The sad ending here is that you're not listening to the people trying to help you avoid killing any more of them.

Feed the scrap to your chickens...hopefully they won't get sour crop.

 

[elevan]

You are trying to reduce your farm's expenses when it comes to feeding pelleted grain by providing them with produce scraps from your local grocery (?)...and that I can certainly understand. You're also admitting fairly new to goats and their nutrition...please understand everyone here wants to help.

The produce that we humans choose to eat is often "richer" than what your typical goat would be used to. Diet is the cause of bloat...not medicines. So Ivomec wasn't the cause here - Diet was...whether it was the molasses misted alfalfa, the produce trimmings or whatever...but it was food that caused her to bloat.

Minnie was fairly new to your farm, so you didn't know if she had a predisposition to bloat (some goats do). And you believe that she was recently settled...hormonal changes can change the "ballgame" in any species and could have made her more susceptible to bloat even if she wasn't before.

You mentioned that the bulk of this last bit of produce trimmings was corn husks. Corn husks can ferment rather quickly....which is why some farmers use it to create silage. The corn husks could have begun fermenting without your realizing it...especially if they were in with "wet" produce trimmings. You admitted you feed those trimmings over several days - plenty of time to start fermenting. Fermented feeds are not good for goats and WILL cause bloat.

I strongly suggest that you step back and re-evaluate. Seeing posts about deadstock breaks everyone's hearts....we wouldn't be saying this if we weren't trying to help. I know that "knowing" it was the produce is gonna make you feel like "you" killed her. Have a cry and learn from it. We all make mistakes whether we're just starting out or into it a while...it becomes a tragedy when you don't learn from them because failure to learn from your mistakes will result in them being repeated.

 

[NDgal]

I agree, I have never read nor heard of Ivermec relating to bloat. I'd tend to go with the produce - just because no other goat bloated/obstructed on this, doesn't mean this particular individual didn't handle it well on that occasion and might have been more sensitive.
As for Pen G only IM - I've given it SQ for years and it's always been effective. There are very few meds you can't SQ - mainy hormones.
At any rate, I am so so very sorry for your loss.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

You are trying to reduce your farm's expenses when it comes to feeding pelleted grain by providing them with produce scraps from your local grocery (?)...and that I can certainly understand. You're also admitting fairly new to goats and their nutrition...please understand everyone here wants to help.

The produce that we humans choose to eat is often "richer" than what your typical goat would be used to. Diet is the cause of bloat...not medicines. So Ivomec wasn't the cause here - Diet was...whether it was the molasses misted alfalfa, the produce trimmings or whatever...but it was food that caused her to bloat.

Minnie was fairly new to your farm, so you didn't know if she had a predisposition to bloat (some goats do). And you believe that she was recently settled...hormonal changes can change the "ballgame" in any species and could have made her more susceptible to bloat even if she wasn't before.

You mentioned that the bulk of this last bit of produce trimmings was corn husks. Corn husks can ferment rather quickly....which is why some farmers use it to create silage. The corn husks could have begun fermenting without your realizing it...especially if they were in with "wet" produce trimmings. You admitted you feed those trimmings over several days - plenty of time to start fermenting. Fermented feeds are not good for goats and WILL cause bloat.

I strongly suggest that you step back and re-evaluate. Seeing posts about deadstock breaks everyone's hearts....we wouldn't be saying this if we weren't trying to help. I know that "knowing" it was the produce is gonna make you feel like "you" killed her. Have a cry and learn from it. We all make mistakes whether we're just starting out or into it a while...it becomes a tragedy when you don't learn from them because failure to learn from your mistakes will result in them being repeated.

I truly believe that some of the people here want to help, however there are others who only wish to add insult to injury.
We may be "new"(owning/raising goats for a year), but it does not mean that we have not done any research. I do not care for the overwhelming air of "I know everything and you are an idiot" that is being thrown in our direction by certain members here.

We have not said that we give produce to reduce the cost of feeding our animals. We offer produce for these reasons: 1) it keeps them from getting pasture bloat come spring, 2) Added nutrition to keep them in prime condition, 3) for the sheer fact that they enjoy it. Yes, it is a bonus that the produce they get is at no cost to us.

I will restate: The last produce minnie had/ate was on Sunday. She had the plain alfalfa hay(dried, cut & shrinkwrapped{not molasses misted} from TSC- new to her diet) on Wednesday. This was a small amount(roughly 2 cups) mixed with their normal hay, and everyone ate it. She didn't show signs of bloat until Thursday(4 days after the produce).

The corn husks are nothing new(in every bag), and go to the goats the same day they are removed from the ears.


To all:
Since no one here thinks that Minnie could have had a bad reaction to the Ivomec 1% Ivermectin injectable for catte given orally, the only other change to her diet was a small amount of the straight dry, cut & shrinkwrapped alfalfa hay that we puchased at TSC. Everything else she ate was not abnormal food stuffs for any of our goats.

Also, our farm is not the only one on here that gives produce in heaps to their goats without having any issues.

 

[Emmetts Dairy]

Im sorry you lost her...but I have to agree with everyone else here on the feeding practices that caused the bloat and absolutley not the ivomectin. As in a prior post you explained that the produce will be somewhat varied from week to week. And just a slight change like that can absolutley, positively cause bloat in a goat very easily. I have no doubt in my mind. And please dont be hurt or offended by people trying to help you. None of us like to hear of dead goats ever. We all love goats and dont try to help and make suggestions to be mean or offensive. Please dont dismiss this information! Its important information!! Very important. A rumen needs a certain balance...and it go off very easily.

Your vet was close to correct in saying that goats dont need much more than hay and water. I would of said a good quality hay, water and loose minerals and grains when working the goats ie milking etc. Many, many people dont grain their bucks ever...maybe in rutt to keep condition on..but thats it.

In the wild...a goat will never eat iceberg lettuce, brocoli, mangos etc, so there is no need to feed these items to them. They will browse on blackberry bushes, various trees and some weeds in meadows etc. So please dont think produce is a nesscessity for them...they are not. Besides the fact the pesticides that exsist in HUMAN produce is never good for them. Additionally scraps from the grocery stores can include molded items which will kill your goaties as well and is a BIG NO NO!!!

PLEASE take this advice...no one is trying to say your intention was to harm your goats. Your intentions were obviously very good!! But they are accurate in stating that the feeding practices you have should be reviewed and changed. I agree with that. It is important to learn and understand how the rumen works....it can go off soooo fast...but can be repaired with the knowledge on how that rumen works.

When you are dealing with bloat...you do not allow the goat to stay down...you message that side hard!! Not like burbing a baby at all...like getting a deep body massage. Push into the rumen and you walk em...and walk em...you stand them up on thier hinds and you get that gas moving.

Again I am soooo sorry you lost her. But please put your pride and emotions aside. Which I know is hard at times. But they are right...it was'nt the ivermec at all..and it is the feeding practice...so please just listen to people who have owned goats for years and have made mistakes to.

No one is judging you...just trying to inform you that changes in feeding practices is a must to keep a healthy herd and to keep from losing anyone else.

FYI Weekly dose's of probiotics will NOT prevent bloat. Just so you know.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

FYI Weekly dose's of probiotics will NOT prevent bloat. Just so you know.

I couldn't agree more. The rumen's microflora are specific to the foods they're eating. Probiotics are not intended for (or effective at) preventing bloat caused by rapid dietary changes.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

I do not care for the overwhelming air of "I know everything and you are an idiot" that is being thrown in our direction by certain members here.

:/

I get the sense that no advice is actually desired in this case. Maybe the information given will benefit some of the lurkers and newbs at least...

 

[redtailgal]

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