Sick calf

[farmerjan]

As I suggested to @misfitmorgan back when she got the bottle calves from the stockyard, and then she lost the one which led to discovery of the milk replacer being soy based and she switched... water only for 12 hours... or completely skipping one feeding... then electrolytes the next feeding, then half the normal bottle feeding the next feeding. You have got so much different stuff in it's gut tract that the normal flora is totally out of whack. ANY live culture yogurt, mixed in the milk replacer, which will help soothe the gut tract will work.
Stop tubing... since you got fluids in it with the syringe, then do it that way if you have to.... Keep the calf inside, out of the hot sun so it does not dehydrate further.

I have never fed lamb milk replacer to calves except when I may have run out for a feeding..... or goat milk replacer either. But there are many people who raise baby calves on goats milk....Have never heard anything about the amount of copper in the calf milk replacer being too high.

Store bought whole milk has been pasteutized... as is all milk replacer powders; many of the dairies I test have put in pasteurizers for the milk they feed their baby calves. Many use waste milk say from antibiotic treated cows or cows with a high cell count... so pasteurizing makes it "safer" to feed with less problems of say staph or strep infections. That is why I suggested just some plain old whole milk.

Does the lamb milk replacer smell like milk? Some of the replacers I would not feed because the smell is repulsive...

I would be very careful of raw milk at this point... you will be introducing another whole set of "germs/bugs" that are relative to the farm where the cow is on... but not necessarily what your calf has been exposed to... It could again throw his gut tract flora out of whack... There are a couple of farms that I will not get calves off of because my bugs and their bugs do not work and the calves ALWAYS get sick....along the lines of don't drink the water in Mexico... a person is not acclimated to what is in the water.
It could be the water you are mixing the replacer with too.... different properties, even like too much lime or hard water or something like that...compared to what he came from. Try distilled water to mix a few feedings....

That said, the bos taurus INDICUS that all humped semi tropical type cattle are members of... ZEBU's being the largest group... have sensitivities to several things used in the normal bos taurus TAURUS cattle.... angus, hereford, dairy breeds etc.... so you are going to have to sift through what the vet says if he has little or no experience with the Indicus group. You cannot use ivermectin in them.... some antibiotics can cause reactions.

I have always said to feed less concentrate (milk replacer powder) in the mix rather than more for anything that is scouring. If you get it to eat even a pint of electrolytes or milk... STOP at that for a feeding. They should be more hungry rather than too full.... The problem I see is this calf is at a very difficult transitional stage... 5-8 weeks they should be eating some grain...and the rumen starting to develop more.

One other thing we do for scouring calves is a raw egg whipped and added to the milk replacer bottle....

I don't have exotics, although we did have some santa gertrudis years ago.... part brahma in the breeding..... and they were more sensitive to alot of stuff. Many of the vets here do not have the experience with the "ear" breeds like they do down south.

Seems like the quotes you referenced with the mini-zebu breeders favor the lamb milk .... they have the experience.

 

[farmerjan]

Read your thread on the moo journal, for more info.

Full size calves get 1/2 gallon per day. The Mini Zubu international page does say to feed mini zebu 64-96oz per day depending on calf size so 4-6 pints per day, I would stick with 4 pints to encourage him to eat more solid food so his rumen can start developing/working properly. Over fed calves will not be motivated to eat solid food.

In my very limited experience dont feed him anything for 24hrs then offer him a bottle of electrolytes in the morning, then a bottle of CALF milk replacer at night. Give him a chance for his system to flush out all the mistakes you and your vet have made. He is not going to drop dead without a bottle for 24hrs.

Our newest Holstein calves are 6 1/2 weeks old and still only picking at hay and grain, so it takes quite awhile. Our oldest holstein calves were not weaned off bottles until they were almost 4 months old. Our younger holestein calves will get milk until they are 3-4 months old as well.

We literally killed a calf trying to "fix" it. We were throwing everything at that calf including tube feeding, and doing the same with the other two calves. Giving them a 24hrs break and nothing else but electrolytes then whey/milk based formula and a dose of probiotic gel fixed it all. Scours were cleared up within 24 hrs and their appetite came back.

Tips on bottle feeding/care from the Mini Zebu International Assoc. Says nothing about not feeding calf formula. After seeing the damage soy based calf formula did to our calves, I would definitely try a calf milk replacer for your Zebu. I have not see anything online that says not to use calf replacer for mini zebu(I can not access FB at work though)
https://www.imza.name/tips-on-bottle-feeding

We are buying auction barn steers and the right milk, zero issues. Your farm raised mini zebu should not be having these problems.

Full size calves get 1/2 gallon PER FEEDING not per day... One normal calf bottle is 1/2 gallon... 2 qts.... 4 pints...64 ounces per 1/2 gallon...... Some bottles now are actually 6 pints or 3/4 gallon....
Since he is a mini I would think that no more than half "normal amount" ; and this calf was supposed to be getting closer to the weaning age so should have been eating at least some grain every feeding.

 

[secuono]

As I suggested to @misfitmorgan back when she got the bottle calves from the stockyard, and then she lost the one which led to discovery of the milk replacer being soy based and she switched... water only for 12 hours... or completely skipping one feeding... then electrolytes the next feeding, then half the normal bottle feeding the next feeding. You have got so much different stuff in it's gut tract that the normal flora is totally out of whack. ANY live culture yogurt, mixed in the milk replacer, which will help soothe the gut tract will work.
Stop tubing... since you got fluids in it with the syringe, then do it that way if you have to.... Keep the calf inside, out of the hot sun so it does not dehydrate further.

I have never fed lamb milk replacer to calves except when I may have run out for a feeding..... or goat milk replacer either. But there are many people who raise baby calves on goats milk....Have never heard anything about the amount of copper in the calf milk replacer being too high.

Store bought whole milk has been pasteutized... as is all milk replacer powders; many of the dairies I test have put in pasteurizers for the milk they feed their baby calves. Many use waste milk say from antibiotic treated cows or cows with a high cell count... so pasteurizing makes it "safer" to feed with less problems of say staph or strep infections. That is why I suggested just some plain old whole milk.

Does the lamb milk replacer smell like milk? Some of the replacers I would not feed because the smell is repulsive...

I would be very careful of raw milk at this point... you will be introducing another whole set of "germs/bugs" that are relative to the farm where the cow is on... but not necessarily what your calf has been exposed to... It could again throw his gut tract flora out of whack... There are a couple of farms that I will not get calves off of because my bugs and their bugs do not work and the calves ALWAYS get sick....along the lines of don't drink the water in Mexico... a person is not acclimated to what is in the water.
It could be the water you are mixing the replacer with too.... different properties, even like too much lime or hard water or something like that...compared to what he came from. Try distilled water to mix a few feedings....

That said, the bos taurus INDICUS that all humped semi tropical type cattle are members of... ZEBU's being the largest group... have sensitivities to several things used in the normal bos taurus TAURUS cattle.... angus, hereford, dairy breeds etc.... so you are going to have to sift through what the vet says if he has little or no experience with the Indicus group. You cannot use ivermectin in them.... some antibiotics can cause reactions.

I have always said to feed less concentrate (milk replacer powder) in the mix rather than more for anything that is scouring. If you get it to eat even a pint of electrolytes or milk... STOP at that for a feeding. They should be more hungry rather than too full.... The problem I see is this calf is at a very difficult transitional stage... 5-8 weeks they should be eating some grain...and the rumen starting to develop more.

One other thing we do for scouring calves is a raw egg whipped and added to the milk replacer bottle....

I don't have exotics, although we did have some santa gertrudis years ago.... part brahma in the breeding..... and they were more sensitive to alot of stuff. Many of the vets here do not have the experience with the "ear" breeds like they do down south.

Seems like the quotes you referenced with the mini-zebu breeders favor the lamb milk .... they have the experience.

How much of the live culture yogurt and how often?

He stays in the barn on his own.

Found my 30mL drenching syringe, so using that for the electrolytes water.

Didn't know milk replacer was pasteurized.
Vet mentioned whole milk and adding a tub of heavy cream and feeding that. Should I do that?
Just the whole milk?
Buy calf replacer?
Or do the lamb replacer at calf mix? I have a new 25# bag and most of a 2nd 25# bag, so I'd like to use it if possible. I'll never get through it for my lambs, as I rarely need it.

Milk replacer powder smells delicious, tastes terrible to me. Smells fine once mixed, haven't tried it once mixed.

Forgot about hidden bugs in milk...Makes sense.

As far as water. I'm on well water, higher iron. House has a regular whole house filter, but nothing fancy & no softener. Just to remove all the iron. It has a little nitrates in it, too. I know because I have aquariums and pond, but they're heavily planted, so a non-issue. Maybe that's an issue for him though?

I've heard zebu are more sheep-like and to use copper-free milk, feeds & minerals. Most on FB say that.

I haven't heard that ivermectin cannot be used. What dewormer is used then?

 

[Ridgetop]

Excellent advice from Farmerjan. Lamb formula has higher amounts of fat and protein. Cut replacer with more water so calf is getting more diluted formula. Richer formula contributes to scours if calf has a dicky tummy.

Have you talked to CLS Ranch? They are in OK but raise Zebu. Might have some help for you. Maybe PM them?

 

[farmerjan]

How much of the live culture yogurt and how often?

He stays in the barn on his own.

Found my 30mL drenching syringe, so using that for the electrolytes water.

Didn't know milk replacer was pasteurized.
Vet mentioned whole milk and adding a tub of heavy cream and feeding that. Should I do that?
Just the whole milk?
Buy calf replacer?
Or do the lamb replacer at calf mix? I have a new 25# bag and most of a 2nd 25# bag, so I'd like to use it if possible. I'll never get through it for my lambs, as I rarely need it.

Milk replacer powder smells delicious, tastes terrible to me. Smells fine once mixed, haven't tried it once mixed.

Forgot about hidden bugs in milk...Makes sense.

As far as water. I'm on well water, higher iron. House has a regular whole house filter, but nothing fancy & no softener. Just to remove all the iron. It has a little nitrates in it, too. I know because I have aquariums and pond, but they're heavily planted, so a non-issue. Maybe that's an issue for him though?

I've heard zebu are more sheep-like and to use copper-free milk, feeds & minerals. Most on FB say that.

I haven't heard that ivermectin cannot be used. What dewormer is used then?

Use the milk replacer you have, diluted... for at least a couple feedings... the calf is getting too much solids. A normal cow has between 3-6 % butterfat... plus solids non fat... protein runs 3% average.... I have heard of cows making up to 8% butterfat.... but QUANTITIES are less....but the calf is used to that from birth.....
I would not add cream to the milk.... JUST ME ... I do not want to contradict your vet. LIQUID is what the calf needs... the more hydrated, the more likely his appetite will come back.....and flush out his gut tract.....

Just add a couple tablespoons or so yogurt to the milk so it mixes in... or dilutes enough to go through the drenching syringe.... We use "drinkable yogurt... known as kefir .... for calves with problems... it is thicker than milk but is still liquid.... you can feed that straight but you want it to go down their throat so make like a thin smoothie ......

Any milk replacer is heated which basically pasteurizes it, as it is then dehydrated.... has to be in order to kill any bacteria that can cause it to go bad.....

Try some whole milk and adding a little lamb milk replacer mix..... but you are looking at only a pint (16 ounces) for a feeding or two..... If it smells good then that is a plus....
Buy a gal of distilled water at Walmart.... $2 maybe..... try it.... you can feed that water to anything or add it to your fish tanks.... The nitrates in your water could be causing the problem.

Most Zebu - bos indicus breeds - are very worm resistant...... that should not be an issue anytime soon..... and be careful of vaccines.... find out exactly what the previous owner was using.... and what the internet forum says.....some of the mlv vaccines can cause some problems....even in "regular" sized cattle....

 

[secuono]

Temp has gone back up, it's 104.1F now.


Has gotten 4 cups of electrolytes so far.

 

[secuono]

Updated the vet.

He asked if he was interested in inedible things, nope. He didn't even want to eat foods, let alone cloth and such.

So, exploratory surgery or 2 weeks of Polyflex.

 

[Jesusfreak101]

I used whole milk for our calf and she did really well. I just bought the one gallon whole milk and warmed it up. Ourside of that no experience sorry yall are having a hard time with him.

 

[secuono]

This vet doesn't have a scope, so I'm going to call the other cattle vet tomorrow and see if they have one & if they can scope his stomachs to try and find something, anything.

 

[secuono]

102.6F
2 more cups electrolytes.