Southern by Choice's Teaching Moments- Indoor LGD! Badger

[Baymule]

I was clipping T-posts a couple of days ago, I have a short stool I sit on to clip the ones at the bottom. It sure saves the back from bending over! Trip saw me in easy reach and here he came. He sat in my lap and loved on me, slobbery and wet. Parker, our black Lab/Great Dane mix was terribly jealous and wanted attention too, so he gave me lots of doggy love too. I laughed and hugged them both. Those are the precious moments of having really wonderful dogs!

 

[goats&moregoats]

@Southern by choice

I know your not on a lot right now. If you don't respond to this by middle of the week I will most likely call you.

I see a lot of post about when it's ok to put LGD pups in with poultry, but don't see much in the way of knowing when they can be in with goats unsupervised by humans. I am assuming that after working with them daily I will know by their actions when the time is right. Obviously, they will be with Yukon & Tahoe now 8 years old and it certainly will be after training that goats are not toys. Does it take as long with the goats? My thinking is most likely not(am I correct?) as goats don't usually flap aroundlol:, picturing that in my head).

I know they have to learn some things from me, but am I also correct in believing they will learn far more from Yukon & Tahoe?
Also, are older LGD's usually pretty accepting of pups?

I am a little nervous, but also pretty sure of myself. I get teaching the basics, wanting good behavior for public outings(usually in my case the vets, nothing more). Out for when I need them to leave an area for working with the animals, sit for when I need to be in control(goats birthing, medicating, feeding etc., wait for entering and exiting the gate or car, and easy for walking on the lead. I have only had to use down once(with Tahoe) who likes to "play" a bit occasionally. Nothing rough and it's not very often. Jumps up and gently swings her paw in the air making no contact, then will jump up or a friendly pat on the head, then goes about her business. One day she just couldn't get enough of the friendly pat on the head. I told her down and that was it.

When I got Yukon & Tahoe(my first LGD's as you know) I was nervous because I didn't know them or what to expect. As soon as I meet them my nervousness faded, did the whole separate but with in fencing of pasture to get to know each other thing with the goats and for some reason instant trust on both sides with dogs and myself.

Now I am nervous because I don't want to wait to long or move to soon as far as when to leave pups alone with Yukon & Tahoe.

Also I don't use the word no...lol, when I see a behavior I don't want( not to may with Yukon & Tahoe because they were already train) I use the word Unacceptable.


Thanks so much for your insight on working with LGD's

 

[Southern by choice]

I am assuming that after working with them daily I will know by their actions when the time is right.

Yes. You will.

Does it take as long with the goats? My thinking is most likely not(am I correct?)

No, not at all.

I know they have to learn some things from me, but am I also correct in believing they will learn far more from Yukon & Tahoe?

Not all "parent or adult" stock are good at training or correcting. That is very individual. Often pups will learn from older stock but there are so many adults that won't correct. So it is not a reliable method ... many really think they can throw them in and the older dogs will teach. Generally it is better to have a GOOD mature LGD and even if they don't correct the pups still learn good things and develop well and usually faster in their job.

Also, are older LGD's usually pretty accepting of pups?

Yes. And it is funny but they tend to like their "own" breed.
Old LGD's sometimes are not very tolerant of a young energetic pup. Old dogs tend to not teach, correct or have anything to do with pups. Usually it is because they are just worn out.

Now I am nervous because I don't want to wait to long or move to soon as far as when to leave pups alone with Yukon & Tahoe.

I am pretty sure Yukon and Tahoe will do fine with the pups.
I will message you in a bit.

 

[Ferguson K]

Southern, I think I found a partner for the LGD we are waiting on adoption approval on. This little guy is a started five month old. She thinks he's already 40+ lbs. He will be a monster... He's a little watcher.

He was the runt, so they kept him... Now he's the biggest puppy. He's mostly Anatolian. Dad is half Pyr. I see a LOT of Pyr influence.

We're taking time to think him over. How do Tolis differ from Pyr? In their habits? In their bonding? Should I still expect a dog Dependant on his flock/herd? Or are they independent watchmen? I see yours in your posts but I'm curious as to how they bond with the animals. The only Toli I've ever really got to experience was a big female that would leap the gate if you approached HER goats. No stranger or stray came anywhere near that pasture. I mean she would come a running full protector mode. Lord forbid you touched one and weren't an accepted member of the herd...

I know all dogs are different. But all the Pyr we've ever had use their size as intimidation tactics and rarely used force if they didn't have to.

 

[Southern by choice]

Some dogs are territory bonded others are goat bonded.

They are all different.
When ever I go to a farm with Toli's or Kangals I don't worry... every once in awhile there will be one that is not tolerant of people but usually they are welcoming.
Pyr's on the other hand... I am much more careful about... as many pyr's that are sweet and friendly to everyone; there are just as many that are not. I see much more aggressiveness from Pyrs.

I will pm you with particulars.

 

[Ferguson K]

All of the Pyrs I've had the bomoe of working with have all been people aggressive. So to speak. If you weren't theirs you didn't come in the pasture.

Especially Bear. He doesn't let anyone near "his" birds. I'm leery of him when its been a while since we've been around him. He's a sneaky thing. Connie was worse. She could steal the marshmallow out from under you at a campfire and you'd never know she was there until you reached for one.

 

[Southern by choice]

Almost all LGD's are like that... stealthy... you don't see them, don't hear them and then there they are.
I am always amazed at their speed. They lumber around so oaf like but when they need to move they move.

 

[Ferguson K]

That's the truth!!!

 

[Southern by choice]

Thought I'd share what I am doing with my "micro-manager" pup "Silver". Silver is Callie's 10 month old pup.
Silver wants to control where the "small" goats go... usually he wants them up by the barn. He likes babies but wants to keep them rounded up and in a certain spot. Usually in the barn.

Because I like to share what we do when we see something we don't like or want to change I thought this may be helpful.

As many of you know Callie is not back in her full time field... she is moved around from field to field because she LOVES her pups. We do not keep her in with the pups full time but she gets to see them often. I must say this is interesting. Usually pups by this age (10 months) are not really viewed as pups by their dam anymore but just one of the pack. Not so with Callie. She LOVES her pups and although she will correct them she still mothers them.

Silver will be going to the Kiko buck field and then alternating to the small dairy bucks field with AMY. Callie will be going back full time also. This means Silver will have 2 powerful males and Callie with him. The Kiko bucks are very protective of their dogs. It's kinda crazy. Callie is HIGHLY possessive of her Kiko goats. So the plan is to allow Silver to learn that he cannot decide and micromanage the goats. Callie may love her pup but these are HER goats and nothing bosses her goats around.
AMY tolerates nothing from her own pups to any other dog so this should be a good teaching tool to help Silver mature a little. He is a perpetual pup. LOL

On a side note- I do get a kick out of the Kikos... the other day I saw Arkados (aka Tiggs-Anatolian male) laid out in his field... Moses (Kiko herdsire) was standing right beside him... Arkados had no movement... I was concerned so I yelled his name- up pops his head. Then I realized Oh, it's just him taking a nap while Moses guards him.
Foe some weird reason the Kiko's love their Anatolians. They are great with "D" (pyr) but they LOVE their Toli's.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[BlessedWithGoats]

Foe some weird reason the Kiko's love their Anatolians.

Aww!! Cute!