OneFineAcre
Herd Master
I don't think the deep litter would spontaneously combust.
Straw or shavings?!
- Thread starter Dogma
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babsbag
Herd Master
OFA, I don't know ... I have seen mine steam when I have to clean out this one area to open a gate. Mine is in a very very open type of structure so I don't worry about it but if the barn was one of those nice ones with 4 walls and a roof I am not convinced. However my DH, the Fire Marshal, agrees with you; he says that the deep liter would most likely not combust but hay bales certainly do.
Deep litter will steam due to moisture content and (slow) decomposition. It will create heat/warmth. In a good compost pile, the internal heat can (and should) be in the 160-200+ degree range, but that's still not normally enough to start a fire... I don't keep my DL as wet as a compost pile so it doesn't create as much heat. It's warm, but not really "composting" like a dedicated compost pile.
I mean the steam is a direct relation to the temp difference between the outside air and the moisture laden air from the deep litter as well as the ambient air humidity. You can get steam at 70 degrees if the compost is running at 120+. If the outside temp is 32 degrees, you'll get steam when the compost is in the 50 degree range.
Now, having electrical wires in/near the DL or in high dust environments... that's a whole nuther story... the dust can cause a short or rodents eating through the protective coatings on the wires... Even your animals can inadvertently cause problems accidentally stepping/pawing the wires, or rubbing against them, etc.
I mean the steam is a direct relation to the temp difference between the outside air and the moisture laden air from the deep litter as well as the ambient air humidity. You can get steam at 70 degrees if the compost is running at 120+. If the outside temp is 32 degrees, you'll get steam when the compost is in the 50 degree range.
Now, having electrical wires in/near the DL or in high dust environments... that's a whole nuther story... the dust can cause a short or rodents eating through the protective coatings on the wires... Even your animals can inadvertently cause problems accidentally stepping/pawing the wires, or rubbing against them, etc.
sadieml
True BYH Addict
@Latestarter , I was reading some interesting stuff on spontaneous combustion of hay and/or straw. There are also some interesting links within these articles/posts. Sounds like a big gamble the way everyone talks, but it's interesting anyway. If you're interested, here are the links: http://articles.extension.org/pages/66577/preventing-fires-in-baled-hay-and-straw
http://farmingforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?14917-What-temp-does-straw-alight-itself
Like I said, there are also links within the articles. Interesting stuff...
http://farmingforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?14917-What-temp-does-straw-alight-itself
Like I said, there are also links within the articles. Interesting stuff...
Thanks! Yeah, moisture and tightly stacked bales is a strict no-no! I don't use hay or much straw in my DL... a little straw from the nest boxes, but that's it. And with compost, you're turning it regularly (or supposed to) to help keep the process even and moving/going. My litter never comes close to ignition temps... And I keep it dry enough that I rarely ever even get steam off it... Of course that does mean more dust, which creates its own set of issues. Always trade offs huh? 
OneFineAcre
Herd Master
I would not want hay baled with over 20% moisture content for more reasons that the risk of spontaneous combustion.
There might be a risk of fire, but I would about guarantee you it would be moldy
There might be a risk of fire, but I would about guarantee you it would be moldy
MamaBlu
Exploring the pasture
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Thank you for the thoughts for sure, it's been hard I brought some ashes with us and we buried them here so that when the animals want to come down from heaven to visit they know where we are It really helped my 9yo daughter to think of this although she still won't talk about the fire much.
Unfortunately for the arson investigator it snowed for a few days starting the day after it happened so it made it very hard to investigate.
I had found a melted glass bottle in the ashes later and he told me usually that is a sign of an accelerant like fuel or chemicals.
We actually didn't have anything stored in the barn because we had just cleaned it a few months before that. The only hay in it was 1 square bale the cow was eating on.
I did have a compost pile of cow manure and hay that I had started in the middle of the barn, but it was far away from anything else.
I try not to dwell on the specifics, I don't like to have hate in my heart, it's hard to think that this landlord would have gone that far but at the same time his reactions afterward and during the fire were very strange indeed.
He came and asked me 3 days later was I going to pay to dispose of the animal carcasses because he didn't want them buried on the property and didn't want to pay for cleaning up dead charred animals.
Honestly I don't think he even has a heart. He asked me this in front of my daughter.
The other really bad thing about it all was it was the day after Valentine's Day so now every year we will be sad on Valentine's Day .
Our landlord also took us to court and sued and won for damages from the fire, 15,000.00 he knows we don't have that kind of money at all, he waited 30 days and filed for wage garnishment. Now he has taken my kids Christmas money, doesn't seem fair.
It's good we are a Christian family and as long as we are together and healthy I pray they will try to understand and not be mad or too sad
Unfortunately for the arson investigator it snowed for a few days starting the day after it happened so it made it very hard to investigate.
I had found a melted glass bottle in the ashes later and he told me usually that is a sign of an accelerant like fuel or chemicals.
We actually didn't have anything stored in the barn because we had just cleaned it a few months before that. The only hay in it was 1 square bale the cow was eating on.
I did have a compost pile of cow manure and hay that I had started in the middle of the barn, but it was far away from anything else.
I try not to dwell on the specifics, I don't like to have hate in my heart, it's hard to think that this landlord would have gone that far but at the same time his reactions afterward and during the fire were very strange indeed.
He came and asked me 3 days later was I going to pay to dispose of the animal carcasses because he didn't want them buried on the property and didn't want to pay for cleaning up dead charred animals.
Honestly I don't think he even has a heart. He asked me this in front of my daughter.
The other really bad thing about it all was it was the day after Valentine's Day so now every year we will be sad on Valentine's Day .
Our landlord also took us to court and sued and won for damages from the fire, 15,000.00 he knows we don't have that kind of money at all, he waited 30 days and filed for wage garnishment. Now he has taken my kids Christmas money, doesn't seem fair.
It's good we are a Christian family and as long as we are together and healthy I pray they will try to understand and not be mad or too sad
What a richard head... Sure will/would be nice to see what karma has in store for his sorry butt.
sadieml
True BYH Addict
@Latestarter People who don't believe in karma don't read the Good Book. In there it's called "sowing and reaping" and God built it in to the foundations of the earth. Oh, yes, sowing and reaping, karma or "what goes around, comes around"...any way you put it, it is VERY REAL. AND let's not forget that when you sow a kernel of corn you don't reap a kernel, or an ear, but a whole great big corn stalk! I would not want to the harvest the must be awaiting this man. (I still pray that even this cold-hearted so-and-so couldn't have been responsible for the fire.)
ps - richard, indeed...
ps - richard, indeed...
Ericka
Overrun with beasties
I was totally going to do a compost pile in the woods... let the wild animals mix it for me LOL perhaps I should be re-thinking that plan! I don't want our woods to catch fire. Thank you Mamablu for sharing your story. I am sorry for the loss of your little ones.
