Sudden Death with Pneumonia?

[olewilliedog]

Hey all,

Ive been surfing around this site for 5 months now and really appreciate all the valuable info i have gained so far.
Im a new goat owner (4 months now) and I thought I finally figured I had the very basics covered when one of my 3 pygmys threw me for a loop these last couple days.

About 3 days ago I noticed she was slightly withdrawn and lethargic. She is a outgoing herd queen so I immediately knew something was off. I figured it was probably worms but thought I would play it safe and schedule her first appt with a vet to gain some insight and basic medical instruction for more advanced care. This morning when I went to take her to the vet she was panting. The Vet diagnosed her with pneumonia or some similar respiratory infection. She prescribed a antibiotic (7 days dose), a anti inflammatory (2 days dose) and a one time injection of something to do with the rumen to encourage her to eat.

The Vet injected all 3 with no adverse reaction and upon returning to the pen the goat was a little more lively and ate better than she had the previous 2 days. I was excited to come home from work to administer the nightly dose of antibiotics and anti inflammatory but between me and my small wife, we encountered some restraint problems.

The first shot took about 4 minutes to get the goat calm and find a good spot to stick the little 10 month old pygmy. The second shot was going on about 10 minutes of attempts between her bucking before i took a 10 minute break where I let her wander and relax with the other goats. On the 2nd attempt at antibiotics she was still fighting very violently when she collapsed, her tongue hung out and she went unconscious. She passed in less than 2 minutes afterwards...

My question is; was this a possible anaphylactic reaction even though she was fine with the injection at the vets? I do not think this is the case of if that is even possible. Or, more likely did I kill her from stress by restraining her repeatedly? I am trying not to come down to hard on myself because I knew the importance of giving her the meds and she was being such a booger, but I need to learn from my mistakes because I still have 2 goats to care for...

Sorry for such a lengthy post, any input in appreciated.

-Willie

 

[poorboys]

yes, it could of been a reaction to the shots. I'm not good at remembering names of certain medicens but there is a shot you need to keep on hand so if you have one that has a reaction you can give this shot and it brings them thru, if not they do die. I have never had one do that but it's good to keep on hand, by the way, they could have that reaction to any kinda shot you give them. sorry for not knowing off the top of my head what the name of it is. sorry for your loss. I'm probably the only one who does this but I give my goats yearly vaccines with pneumonia shot. 2cc per head, once a year, I never have to deal with pneumonia.

 

[Mamaboid]

The name of the med you are trying to think of is epinephrine. Usually referred to as an epi-pen, or epi-shot. My husband is allergic to bee stings, and has an epi-pen available at all times, we always grab it before we give shots of any kind to our goats. I think of it like an umbrella. You know, if you have one it will not rain, but leave it at home and it will pour. So sorry you had this happen.

 

[20kidsonhill]

If she died immediatly after giving the shot, you could have hit a vein, Epi would not fixed this problem. could have been a reation as well, epi will help with this. Have to admit I don't own a bottle of Epi and at the peak of our season we have around 70 goats on the farm. She sounds like she was really stressing out. Very sorry for the experience. And you are right not to be to hard on yourself.
My suggestion next time would be to halter the goat with a small nylon sheep/goat halter. Tie her tightly to a 4x4 or post near a wall or sturdy fence and that way your wife can just help pin her to the wall and her head will not beable to move. Tie her so close to the post that there is no extension of the lead between the post and her head or just a couple inches. I have even wrapped a 2nd halter around their horns and the post. Then push her to the wall and lean into her side. Having her tightly restrained would help the job get done faster, help you position the needle better and she may stop fighting because she can't move.

I am sure your wife feels bad too, being it was hard for her to help restrain the goat.
Another idea is when going to catch the goat, have a small catch pen in the corner that you move the goat around to and corner her into and close the gate. A catch pen no bigger than 4x6 would work for your small animals. Having the side high enough that they can't get out. An 8 foot long cattle panel, 3 feet from the wall in one corner can work well. We put 4x4 fencing on our cattle panels. You leave the cattle panel opened a ways on the open end. then move the animal around the barn to that corner and slowly just slilp the cattle panel close with you in it. have your wife hold the panel close or latch it and then move slowly and catch the animal. Then halter and tie up.

Not sure if you are saying it took you 10 minutes to catch her or 10 minutes to figure out how to restrain her and hold her still?

Either way, very sorry for bad experience.

 

[julieq]

I'm so very sorry this happened. Epinephrine is definitely something we goat people need to keep on hand.

Our vet uses a long acting antibiotic, which is only administered once. I can't remember the name of it right now, but perhaps someone else can chime in. It's a lot easier than administering multiple injections.

 

[olewilliedog]

Thanks for all the replies and condolences.

Didnt sleep much last night and have been spending considerable time today with the other 2 goats to make sure they are adjusting ok. Kinda sad not to be vocally greeted! She was the only one who usually says hello.

To clarify when I said 10 minutes I meant the time it took from catching her to the time she collapsed. After the first anti-inflammatory there was a 10 minute window we tried to calm her and give her the antibiotic injection, a 10-15 minute break we all took because she wasnt having it, and the another 5-10 minutes of her bucking on the 2nd attempt. All in all from the anti-inflammatory to death it was nearly 30 minutes, she showed signs of severe distress (fainting, slow breathing) for only about 2 of those minutes before passing. The antibiotic was never injected.

I feel bad for stressing her for so long, but that is why i opted for a break in between. If it would have been injected IV (vein) by mistake is that something she would have been ok with for nearly 30 minutes? She was up and walking around just fine during our break. I guess i just assumed it couldnt have been an allergic reaction because she took the shot at the vets just fine, but after doing further research I now know that they usually wont go into shock on their first exposure...

Is it possible she died from stress? That is what the vet suggested that prescribed the meds. That her system was so weak she might not have been able to handle the stress/meds. She was slightly withdrawn and panting last night but didnt look like she was on her death bed yet... Her pupils were huge and she had no fever at all at the vets if this helps. Im not sure whether she just wasnt as sick as the vet thought, or maybe so sick her fever had already passed and it was to late from the start.

I still need to do CD&T immunizations and would at least like to have some peace of mind with the situation to get some confidence before I attempt this again, thanks for all the help and knowledge. I will def look into some epi and better restraint system either way.

-Willie

 

[Catahoula]

So sorry for your loss. It is possible if injected in the vein to take more than a few minutes to start reacting to it. If you do a necropsy (autopsy for animals), you may be able to find some answers.
As for a better restraint system... You can also buy or build a milking stanchion. I don't have any does in milk and also have three wethers. I use the stanchion for giving them shots and trimming their hooves. They get used to eating treats from the stanchion while I work on them. My boer wethers are heavier than me but they learn to stand still on the stanchion.