Sundragon Farms. The saga continues.

[Sundragons]

Little Chestnut ND kit, a week old today.

...Vienna Marked? @Bunnylady ? is that what I'm seeing here?

 

[Bunnylady]

Little Chestnut ND kit, a week old today.

...Vienna Marked? @Bunnylady ? is that what I'm seeing here?

View attachment 43962

Possibly, though a blaze that perfectly centered could be Dutch markings. Any BEW's in the background?

 

[Sundragons]

Possibly, though a blaze that perfectly centered could be Dutch markings. Any BEW's in the background?

REW, yes. Mom threw one last litter and both of her litter sibs have as well. Not BEW though, at least not that we're aware of. This is dad's first litter, and he's a black.

All 3 of the Chestnuts in this litter are marked like this. This one's the most prominent. the other 2 in this litter are black. (5 kits total)

 

[Bruce]

Reading rabbit threads suggests there are too many pattern/colors for bunnies!! How do you keep them all straight, or even figure out what a given bunny is?

 

[Sundragons]

Reading rabbit threads suggests there are too many pattern/colors for bunnies!! How do you keep them all straight, or even figure out what a given bunny is?

I'm using a program called Rabbit Register to track pairings and the general operations of our rabbitry. It gives me predictions based on the parents for a litter, and then based on what I know about their pedigrees and their siblings, I can make some reasonable guesses about outcomes. I'm still learning the rabbit genome myself, and the research can get overwhelming at times. Having some sources you can trust to ask questions (like bunnylady) also helps.

In the end, even with general predictions, It's still a roll of the dice on what you get. With this specific doe even, we got a REW in our last litter and we didn't know she carried the gene for it until she was born. Specifically with this litter I figured we'd see chestnuts, black, and probably otters. I just wasn't expecting the white markers.

 

[Bunnylady]

REW, yes. Mom threw one last litter and both of her litter sibs have as well. Not BEW though, at least not that we're aware of. This is dad's first litter, and he's a black.

All 3 of the Chestnuts in this litter are marked like this. This one's the most prominent. the other 2 in this litter are black. (5 kits total)

There are things known as Vienna Carriers, that have a copy of the gene for BEW but don't express it. Vienna Marked is much more common, though.

I'd think it would be pretty unusual to have that many VM's with no blue eyes at all, so I'd be looking at eye color to help me to decide. There are a lot of Dutch pattern genes running around in the Dwarfs, which can get you small facial markings and/or white on the feet.

Neither parent are brokens, are they?

Reading rabbit threads suggests there are too many pattern/colors for bunnies!! How do you keep them all straight, or even figure out what a given bunny is?

There are a bunch of genes that go into making rabbit coat color, but if you are familiar with the concept of a "dichotomous key," that's kind of how you arrive at the color. You ask yourself, "do I see this, yes or no?" If yes, then you go one way, if no, you go another way, through all the various steps of the key, until you arrive at the combination that is that color. When you know what the genes do, it's not that hard to figure out what you are seeing - most of the time. Pictures don't always get you there, though; sometimes it can be something subtle.

An example of that might be the 5-day-old Netherland Dwarf babies in this picture. The one in the back is probably a REW, though it might be a Himi, I don't yet know what the buck was so I can't be sure. The one in the front isn't dark enough to be a Black, doesn't appear to be any shade of brown, so I know it's a Blue something. The belly and the insides of the ears are light colored, so I know it's not a Self color, which leaves Agouti and Tan patterns. The body hairs are long enough for the banding of Agouti to show, and since there is no banding, it must be a Tan pattern - which leaves only Blue Otter or Blue Silver Marten as possibilities. The insides of the ears don't look yellowish, but I'm waiting for a light-colored triangle to develop behind the ears to be sure. If the triangle is white, it's a Silver Marten, if it is tan colored, it's an Otter.

Pretty simple, really, for most breeds. It gets crazy-making with the Angoras; the colors get so diluted on those long hairs, some colors get pretty hard to tell apart.

 

[Bruce]

I read what you wrote @Bunnylady ... and got a headache.

 

[Bunnylady]

I read what you wrote @Bunnylady ... and got a headache.

Just the process of elimination - what's so tough about that?

But like I said, when you know what the genes do, it's not so bad. You just have to learn them one at a time rather than trying to take on the whole thing at once.

 

[Sundragons]

There are things known as Vienna Carriers, that have a copy of the gene for BEW but don't express it. Vienna Marked is much more common, though.

I'd think it would be pretty unusual to have that many VM's with no blue eyes at all, so I'd be looking at eye color to help me to decide. There are a lot of Dutch pattern genes running around in the Dwarfs, which can get you small facial markings and/or white on the feet.

Neither parent are brokens, are they?

Nope. Mon's the brindled harlequin Orange I asked you about a few weeks ago, and the Buck's a black. I was thinking I'd have to watch eye color to be sure, but the Dutch marking didn't occur to me at all, so now I'm leaning that way pending seeing their peepers.

I know about VC, I have a VM Orange Holland lop doe with blue eyes. However, am I incorrect in assuming that her offspring would all be VC since she's VM?

 

[Bunnylady]

No, VM and VC are the same - one copy of Vienna, and one of non-Vienna. Because she has one of each, the doe will give Vienna to some babies, and non-Vienna to others. If she is bred to a buck that doesn't have Vienna, some of her babies will not have any Vienna genes at all, though without test breeding you can't be sure which are simply non-Vienna and which VC.