The Muslim approach to slaughtering goats

[FarmerChick]

One thing you can do is set up a slaughter shack.

The customers buy the goat, you supply the shack, some equipment, water, bags to handle meat, etc. and THEY do the entire kill and process themselves. That way you supply the situation, they do they work themselves and know it is handled they way they desire.

A few farms have been doing this with good results.

 

[Ariel301]

Just thought I'd add, Halal slaughter allows for stunning, but Kosher slaughter does not. With Kosher slaughter the animal must bleed out from their throat being cut.

I completely respect the culture and those who consume Kosher meat, but for me personally I dont believe Kosher killing is humane. Halal is, Kosher isnt. But as I said, that is my personal opinion only, and I have no problem and completely respect people who slaughter animals and consumer meat in the Kosher way

Some groups of Jews actually do allow for stunning in certain cases, such as cattle. They are not stunned in the slaughterhouse, because they have equipment there to restrain the cow while its throat is cut. If it is done at home, as we do, the cow is stunned with a bullet to the head (this doesn't kill it, cows are pretty hard to kill in this manner unless you hit just the right spot!), and then the throat is cut immediately with a very sharp knife, very deeply, so that it bleeds out. The stunning is for safety, as it is pretty dangerous to walk up to a thousand pound cow and cut its throat while it is just standing there! We do not stun small animals like goats, sheep, or poultry, because they can be killed quickly with a deep cut to the throat, severing all blood vessels, allowing the animal to die within a few seconds. Of course, some sects of Judaism will tell you that an animal processed at home is not kosher anyway, it must be done by someone licensed. But, Biblically, it was being done at home for thousands of years before they ever thought of licensed butchers, so I, at least am ok with doing my own, as is my rabbi. I can tell you from experience that this method is much more humane than what is used in a standard slaughterhouse. The animal dies peacefully and quietly, within seconds. It is not hung, skinned, or gutted until it is definitely dead (commercial slaughter plants often hang/begin gutting while the animal is still in the process of dying!) The last cow we did was traumatized more in the trailering process to get her home than in the killing! My husband and I only eat meat we process ourselves, because we are two hours from the nearest kosher market, and the meat is so expensive we cannot afford it.

I don't know all the standards Muslims have, but Jews want as much blood removed as possible. We do not consume blood. (I know it is impossible to get every drop, but we get as close as we can) I think it is the same for Muslims. After the animals is bled and butchered, the meat cuts are then also soaked in salt water to remove more blood. Also, the sciatic nerve must be removed for Jews at least (in mammals, doesn't matter in birds), and certain fats around organs cannot be used. The blood cannot be collected for use, it must be poured on the ground and buried. And for Orthodox at least, all utensils and surfaces used in the butcher process must be ceremonially clean, and not also be used for dairy products. (You don't cut cheese and your meat with the same knives, or even the same countertop) Also, for some Jewish groups at least, the animal must be weaned from the mother--no veal or newborn goat. (Some are ok with these meats though) I have been told that Jewish kosher meat is all right for Muslims as we have stricter kosher standards than they do, and go even beyond what they require.

 

[username taken]

I can tell you from experience that this method is much more humane than what is used in a standard slaughterhouse. The animal dies peacefully and quietly, within seconds. It is not hung, skinned, or gutted until it is definitely dead (commercial slaughter plants often hang/begin gutting while the animal is still in the process of dying!)

This is the type of generalisation that really boils my blood. So many people tell me similar things, how slaughterhouses/abbatoirs are so cruel. And because I send my wethers there, by association I am cruel.

I ask those people, have they ever been to an abbatoir? Have they ever watched the process?

Generalisations are a dangerous thing.

I have no doubt that there are some abbatoirs that yes, the above quote rings true for them. But it is certainly NOT true for the particular abbatoir which I use.

I deliver my wethers in the morning, and within 2 hrs they are hanging in the chiller. They are herded quietly and calmly - without dogs - into the yard and mustered up a ramp. At the top, the stunner gives them a little scratch on the head - most of my goats like being scratched, they are friendly little buggers - and the stunner touches them on the back of the head lightly. They immediately fall down, unconscious, and their throat is cut. They are hung by the back legs to bleed out, and the body twitches once or twice as is normal. There is no such thing as skinning/gutting while they are still alive. I assure you, those goats are dead. I certainly couldnt send all my babies there if I thought they were being processed whilst still alive. Within 15 - 20 mins all 70 animals are hanging in the chiller. I dont believe they suffer or stress at all. And I know, from killing my own at home, that they kick and twitch for MUCH longer, and take longer to die, if I just cut their throats, without stunning them.

Conversely, another local abbatoir here, is one that I feel is NOT humane. They stun, but I doubt they do it properly, or they dont cut the throats properly, because their sheep kick on the hooks for up to five minutes. That is not humane in my mind, those sheep are taking far too long to die, and that is why my livestock do not go there.

But the point is, to make such a vast generalisation that abbatoirs and slaughterhouses are cruel, and it is much more humane to slaughter at home, that generalisation is just not fair. There are some abbatoirs which are VERY humane, and do a far better job than I could do at home.

 

[FarmerChick]

calendar of ethnic holidays

I would gear my goat kids to market based on these dates.
believe me, the price per lb. increases alot.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geut2gP...sheepandgoat.com/articles/ethniccalendar.html

 

[1stepcloser]

I just want to say this entire thread has been very educational. Thank you!

 

[miss mo]

I know this is an old post but you may want to check into your local laws regarding slaughter on your premises. A fellow in our area who actually had a "slaughterhouse" business got into trouble for allowing customers to slaughter their recently purchased animal. He eventually got proper permits and researched thoroughly the Muslim requirements. This involved the slaughter shed actually facing a certain direction among other things.

 

[blk90s13]

I read most of the first page then looked through pages 2 and 3 I dont think an actual Muslim member replied to why a Muslim would like to slaughter his own meat animal.

Its not only about the blood draining you actually have to say " Besm Alah Alah akbar " which translates to " In the name of God God is greater " ( And it have to be said by a believer in Islam ) and thats what makes a kill halal or not then comes the blood draining part later


Hope I cleared things up for everyone



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah

 

[dhansen]

Ok, so here's another question ....Have any of you butchered a year old buck goat? If I had an auction nearby, I would take him and sell him. Unfortunately, I do not and so thought of butchering him to eat. Does a buck have a strong taste?

 

[Calliopia]

There ARE reasons for slaughtering on site. It is part of Halal butchering.

They must die from a single cut to the throat, and they have to be blessed before death. The animals must also eat/drink before death so often they will pour a little water down their throat before hand.

I have heard from various sources that depending on personal religious adherence the animal may or may not be stunned in advance for either Kosher OR Halal. I think general consensus on stunning is that it has to be reversible, as in you can't use a captive bolt gun as that has the same effect as an actual gun and in most cases the animal would die of the "gun shot". The animal also has to die from bleeding out.

In many cases it also has to be pure.. still has horns, and all the bits it was born with. No scars, ear tag holes, etc.

There are some really good websites out there that go into great detail on the specifics, this is just some of what I picked up when I was looking into it.

The main thing I realized though is the for every person you talk to there will be a different definition.

 

[Hollywood Goats]

Just thought I'd add, Halal slaughter allows for stunning, but Kosher slaughter does not. With Kosher slaughter the animal must bleed out from their throat being cut.

I completely respect the culture and those who consume Kosher meat, but for me personally I dont believe Kosher killing is humane. Halal is, Kosher isnt. But as I said, that is my personal opinion only, and I have no problem and completely respect people who slaughter animals and consumer meat in the Kosher way

Some groups of Jews actually do allow for stunning in certain cases, such as cattle. They are not stunned in the slaughterhouse, because they have equipment there to restrain the cow while its throat is cut. If it is done at home, as we do, the cow is stunned with a bullet to the head (this doesn't kill it, cows are pretty hard to kill in this manner unless you hit just the right spot!), and then the throat is cut immediately with a very sharp knife, very deeply, so that it bleeds out. The stunning is for safety, as it is pretty dangerous to walk up to a thousand pound cow and cut its throat while it is just standing there! We do not stun small animals like goats, sheep, or poultry, because they can be killed quickly with a deep cut to the throat, severing all blood vessels, allowing the animal to die within a few seconds. Of course, some sects of Judaism will tell you that an animal processed at home is not kosher anyway, it must be done by someone licensed. But, Biblically, it was being done at home for thousands of years before they ever thought of licensed butchers, so I, at least am ok with doing my own, as is my rabbi. I can tell you from experience that this method is much more humane than what is used in a standard slaughterhouse. The animal dies peacefully and quietly, within seconds. It is not hung, skinned, or gutted until it is definitely dead (commercial slaughter plants often hang/begin gutting while the animal is still in the process of dying!) The last cow we did was traumatized more in the trailering process to get her home than in the killing! My husband and I only eat meat we process ourselves, because we are two hours from the nearest kosher market, and the meat is so expensive we cannot afford it.

I don't know all the standards Muslims have, but Jews want as much blood removed as possible. We do not consume blood. (I know it is impossible to get every drop, but we get as close as we can) I think it is the same for Muslims. After the animals is bled and butchered, the meat cuts are then also soaked in salt water to remove more blood. Also, the sciatic nerve must be removed for Jews at least (in mammals, doesn't matter in birds), and certain fats around organs cannot be used. The blood cannot be collected for use, it must be poured on the ground and buried. And for Orthodox at least, all utensils and surfaces used in the butcher process must be ceremonially clean, and not also be used for dairy products. (You don't cut cheese and your meat with the same knives, or even the same countertop) Also, for some Jewish groups at least, the animal must be weaned from the mother--no veal or newborn goat. (Some are ok with these meats though) I have been told that Jewish kosher meat is all right for Muslims as we have stricter kosher standards than they do, and go even beyond what they require.

Kosher meat is okay for Muslims, the only deference is that Muslims can stun and they soak in vinegar water and Jews can't stun and they soak in salt water for 60 minutes. All kosher meat is Halal but Halal meat is not kosher.

according to Jewish law, you cannot eat the animal if it was injured, that includes putting a bullet in it's head to stun it.

I am not clear as to why the Rabbi's forbid stunning with a stun gun, but they do.

There are many laws on meat and dairy, it takes years to learn them all!

But here is a family story!
My something great grandfather was a Kosher slaughterer he died at the age of 102 when the un-stunned bull kicked him while he was killing it, he died 3 days later.