The probability a sow will have a big litter

[Mikethepigman]

@misfitmorgan I guess around my neck of woods we say pups more than piglets.. no real reason other than we are lazy I guess lol see the boar I got breed one sow so far, she had 7, I got her as a bred gilt. She had 7 and was bred to a different boar. What I would like is bigger litter size, 10-14 would be nice. What I need to do is to figure out who and how I can achieve that litter goal. My boar is in with three other sow's that we all purchased either breed or already having pups on the ground. The boar is well old enuff heck I'd guess 2-3 yr old about 600 lbon the hoof. Loveable fella. But he was a auction pig, witch may mean he was a low producer, maybe he wasn't needed. Idk that's the down side to auction pigs. I have two gilts that should be of age in January and the other three sow's with him should be farrowing about that time so was gonna swap them around. However if it's the boar id rather pull him out and replace him. Just trying to figure the best way to make a good decision on this. Some say count tits on the boar, and count tits on the gilts/sow's. Some say make sure the came from bigger litters. Some say get two boars and swap ever other two weeks. Some say two boars in one pen is fine.. just soooooo much to look at...and right now I can buy gilts for 60 cents a pound ready to breed and could pay the same for a different boar. Ultimately I would like to have 2 boars and 20 sow's but only have four sow's, two gilts almost ready to breed and three gilts that won't be ready till next spring. But in order to keep 20 sow's I'd need at least 8 a litter and ten or more would be even better...

 

[Mikethepigman]

Also, is there a way to breed for more gilts than boars?? Just wondering on that, I know my boars first litter had 5 boars and 2 gilts. Not a big issue but cutting nuts can be time consuming and all.

 

[misfitmorgan]

@misfitmorgan I guess around my neck of woods we say pups more than piglets.. no real reason other than we are lazy I guess lol see the boar I got breed one sow so far, she had 7, I got her as a bred gilt. She had 7 and was bred to a different boar. What I would like is bigger litter size, 10-14 would be nice. What I need to do is to figure out who and how I can achieve that litter goal. My boar is in with three other sow's that we all purchased either breed or already having pups on the ground. The boar is well old enuff heck I'd guess 2-3 yr old about 600 lbon the hoof. Loveable fella. But he was a auction pig, witch may mean he was a low producer, maybe he wasn't needed. Idk that's the down side to auction pigs. I have two gilts that should be of age in January and the other three sow's with him should be farrowing about that time so was gonna swap them around. However if it's the boar id rather pull him out and replace him. Just trying to figure the best way to make a good decision on this. Some say count tits on the boar, and count tits on the gilts/sow's. Some say make sure the came from bigger litters. Some say get two boars and swap ever other two weeks. Some say two boars in one pen is fine.. just soooooo much to look at...and right now I can buy gilts for 60 cents a pound ready to breed and could pay the same for a different boar. Ultimately I would like to have 2 boars and 20 sow's but only have four sow's, two gilts almost ready to breed and three gilts that won't be ready till next spring. But in order to keep 20 sow's I'd need at least 8 a litter and ten or more would be even better...

It is very possible it is the boar, also possible it is the gilt. Depending on your feed costs i would go ahead and pick up another younger boar before prices go up but wait as long as you can and if the other sows he bred have small litters as well i would replace him. If the other sows have large litters i would replace the gilt.

Be very careful when trying to breed for litters with more then 12 piglets. A local pig farmer here had that goal and now 5 generations later he has a massive problem because his sows are all having 16-18 piglets per litter but because the sows can not make enough milk for all of them he is having 8-12 piglets per litter die...so in reality his litters are only 6-10 piglets and the past two litters he lost the entire litter of 16 piglets in one and 18 piglets in the other, he also lost his show quality sow because she had a piglet stuck and was to tired to get it out, and he ended up losing 7 piglets still in the sow and 4 of the 7 she already had given birth too. He is now in the process of changing out all of his sows to new gilts who produce smaller litters. It's fine to breed for large litters but know where the line is and make sure you stick to it. Any sow that has over 12 piglets more then once, on our farm is sent to freezer camp. The exception are sow with 14 teats they are allowed 14 piglets. Basically we limit litter size to number of functioning teats whenever possible. Having large litters is also hard on the sows and will cost you in feed. Our gilt who farrowed a few weeks also is currently on 9lbs of pig feed and 3 lbs of cracked corn per day to maintain her weight and she is under ideal weight.

Which reminds me of another point, if your sows are allowed to become to overweight you will have problems with breeding, farrowing, and litter size. There is a kind of ideal balance of fat and lean when your breeding pigs and know that they are going to fluctuate in weight and adjust your feed accordingly.

Another consideration is your boar may be to heavy for your sows/gilts if they are younger. Large boars on small sows/gilts can make stand un-naturally when the boar mounts which can make him have a hard time finding the mark so to speak. If your sows/gilts are 300lbs or more it shouldnt be an issue though.

Atm at auction here feeder pigs are going for $17 each.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Also, is there a way to breed for more gilts than boars?? Just wondering on that, I know my boars first litter had 5 boars and 2 gilts. Not a big issue but cutting nuts can be time consuming and all.

No way that i know of. Some boars will naturally throw more females then males or vice versa but it is pretty much luck of the draw. We dont cut our feeder pigs, only our 4-h pigs so it saves time. Cutting is a pain on large litters or when you have two litters to do at once.

 

[Mikethepigman]

Well really 8 is about my bottom number. It cost me about $300 a year for one sow, feeding 8 lbs. a day and of course a little more when milking. So in order for me to make a few dollars at the end of the year each sow has to wean at least 8 pups a litter.my first four gilts and boar did nothing for like 6 months. I was soooooo frustrated. Got rid of them now this year I'm building my herd up with good sow's. I'll know more in a few months if my other sow's have small litters. Then the boar will be sausage!! Guess when I do go to get another boar, do I count his tits or anything. Chances are he will be a auction pig as well or I can always keep one outta my litters, but again if the litter is small I don't want him to pass that on..I do try and rub the piglets belly's to see if they lay down as if they were nursing, and try to see the business end cause I've found it can lead to birthing problems. Here we have a auction place that has feeders for $8-$21 I think, up to 40 lbers. When I go to my buddies farm and pick out pigs he has around 500 at a time. All auction pigs and I either get em when small or wait till about ready to breed, just depends on price and my cash at the time. Really I guess 10-12 pups per litter would make me happy, I do alright most of the spring and summer selling feeder pigs. It's the fall and winter that is not so good and with auction prices this low at this time of year I'd have no choice but to sell for nothing...but I figure if I have 30-50 piglets it would be a check at least.

 

[NH homesteader]

What's your primary goal for breeding pigs? Are you raising some for meat as well? Just curious...

 

[Mikethepigman]

Yes piglets is the main source of return, however we are starting to sell meat pigs. Starting to get into fair pigs, maybe not so much show winners, but I hate when ppl sell a run of the mill feeder to folks for $150 cause their child wants to be apart of something and learn something. So I sell my fair piglets for $80 lol rest of year feeders sell for $60 and if whole litter is bought I'll come down some.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Well really 8 is about my bottom number. It cost me about $300 a year for one sow, feeding 8 lbs. a day and of course a little more when milking. So in order for me to make a few dollars at the end of the year each sow has to wean at least 8 pups a litter.my first four gilts and boar did nothing for like 6 months. I was soooooo frustrated. Got rid of them now this year I'm building my herd up with good sow's. I'll know more in a few months if my other sow's have small litters. Then the boar will be sausage!! Guess when I do go to get another boar, do I count his tits or anything. Chances are he will be a auction pig as well or I can always keep one outta my litters, but again if the litter is small I don't want him to pass that on..I do try and rub the piglets belly's to see if they lay down as if they were nursing, and try to see the business end cause I've found it can lead to birthing problems. Here we have a auction place that has feeders for $8-$21 I think, up to 40 lbers. When I go to my buddies farm and pick out pigs he has around 500 at a time. All auction pigs and I either get em when small or wait till about ready to breed, just depends on price and my cash at the time. Really I guess 10-12 pups per litter would make me happy, I do alright most of the spring and summer selling feeder pigs. It's the fall and winter that is not so good and with auction prices this low at this time of year I'd have no choice but to sell for nothing...but I figure if I have 30-50 piglets it would be a check at least.

Can i ask what percentage feed your using? For maintenance feed we feed 5lbs/day/sow. The last month of being bred they usally will increase on feed a bit to 6lbs/day/sow and after farrowing they are between 7-9lbs/day/sow depending on how they hold weight or not. Boars are fed 5lbs flat per day. All pigs also get approx 1/4 bale of hay per pig. If your not getting your feed direct from a local farmer/growing it yourself...i highly suggest looking into a feed mill to buy bulk feed. You should be able to find it around $7-8/50lb and a discount for buying it by the ton. Generally if they offer 50lb's and 100lb's go for 100lbs if you can lift them because you save 0.25/bag. So if your buying 400lbs bagged in 100lb bags you say $1 which over the year adds up when you have a lot of pigs.

If your going to get a new young boar make sure he is gonna be 8 months min by the time you wanna breed him. Pigs can breed younger then that but your going to end up with a small litter. You can count teats on the new boar if you get one but it isnt exactly a gurantee of litter size of fertility. There is an old wives tale that even numbered teats produce bigger litters but i personally have not seen any evidence of this. I would say look for boars with 12 teats and sows with 10-12 teats. If you get a good sow that produces large litters of nice looking piglets you can hold back a gilt or two to breed which will give you better odds on higher litters from those gilts, as i said be careful with this and make sure you set a goal/limit. Something like if the sow produces more then 12-14 piglets routinely dont hold back gilts from her cause you could have problems later.

When producing pigs for meat you need to have some hard and fast rules to be able to end up with what you want. Typical goals are breeding age, weight management, litter size, teat count, etc. Do you want pigs you know you can breed at a certain age for sure? We know you want a specific litter size. Do you have a teat count ideal number in mind? Perhaps most importantly how fast do the piglets grow, how well does the boar and sow maintain weight and on what amount of feed. Once you figure out all of those goals stick to them and cull those who dont meet them when the time is appropriate to do so....meaning if you have 4 sows and you know 3 dont meet your goals dont slaughter/sell those 3 until you have replacements at breeding age ready to take over for them and in best case until they are proven to meet the goals you want otherwise you will be repeating that same step over and over.

A quick way to get good DNA is AI. It is not super expensive but it will give you nice looking pigs fast assuming your sows are good quality. You can find registered show quality sperm in the off season for as low as $20/dose. In fact you might be close enough to pick up the semen in person and avoid the $50-65 shipping fee. Also over-run semen usually has a 50% discount and you can get that in season.

Here is a list of some places in Ohio and Indiana

Shipley's Swine Genetics - Newark, OH
Genetic Edge - Wauseon, OH
Santoro Swine Genetics - Lowellville, OH
Birchwood Genetics - Ohio, Kentucky, and Michigan
Top Choice Genetics - Ashland, OH
Real McCoy Genetics - Bloomingburg, OH
Lean Value Sires - New Carlisle, OH
Parrish Farms - Edon, OH (no website, phone# 419-272-2852)
S and K Showpigs - Arlington, OH
Sugar Creek Farms - green springs, OH
Breeders Choice Genetics - Washington Court House, OH
Bona Vista Farm - Farmersville, OH
Sharrett Family Farms - Sabina, OH

Purple Power Boar Semen - Chalmers, IN
Premium Blend Genetics - Arlington, IN
Southern Gold Series - Salem, IN
Top Cut Genetics - Atlanta, IN
Perry Swine Genetics - Monticello, IN
Shauffer's Goldrush - Albany, IN
Top cut Sires - Farmland, IN

If you choose to go the AI route and not have a boar you save quite a bit of money not feeding the boar or if you choose to just keep one boar around and need to switch up some genetics. The boar we had ate 5/lbs a day plus 1/4 bale of hay a day so not having him for the year saved us $260 in pig feed and if we paid for hay it would have saved us another $274-365 in hay. $534 can buy a lot of doses of boar semen and AI rods. Most Boar Semen also have a settle gurantee on any of the in-season pricing of boars generally over $50/dose some do over $100/dose as well. Not trying to push you into it just trying to give you some info.

Also this is an interesting read on Boar semen having markers for large litter size.
http://www.asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/201504/JournalNews/MCPBoar/

 

[Mikethepigman]

Yea I get bulk feed from a mill already, 1000 pounds at a time, anywhere from $130-$150 depending on the corn market, also just found a farmer with 55000 bushel of corn he's will to sell at $3/bushel. I do not have that kind of cash but is a distant friend. Also have another friend who has 5 feed grinders( everybody gotta collect something lol) he is will to help me grid feed if I wanted. I use Kent lean grower, in 6 months( +- a week) I raised our first butcher pigs. Last week picked up ours and they were 173 hanging weight. The feed I get is a mix of 800 pounds corn to 200 pounds lean grower. The folks at the mill told me it was around 16%. I follow my other buddies feed practices with 8# of feed a day. Half in morning and half at night. I am super satisfied with the feed and the growth of the pigs and all. That sugar Creek farm is only 30 min. From me. I've heard of them, they sell alot of Duroc pigs, show quality.the problem I have with ai is never done and having to be sure the sow is ready. One I would love to try tho. I am looking for new boar, after all this talk we have had im believing he is the main problem. Sucks tho cause I do like him alot. Such a gentle giant and all. Oh well that's how it goes with farming. One thing I do is, my piglets always get a separate pen connected to the sow's pen where they get free choice of feed and water, it helps wean a few days/ weeks earlier. I don't have scales but I know in 40 days they are well over 20 pounds, with only 16 days to go, they are over 30 pounds by 56. I have figured something out, but now it's time to fine tune my operation and manage it better to make sure I'm getting the most in my returns. Like I said the main part is Farrow to wean, but I wanna work on butcher hogs more. In order to do that I need more litter size to off set my feed bill witch is about $300 a month. My next steps are to save $500 and buy a ton of Kent lean grower and buy corn and grind my own, I have a little silo and stuff but first I have my new bigger but small Farrow/breeding barn I'm building. I've got two gilts that came from litters of 14 and I hope after talking with ya that they don't have any bigger ones lol like I said ideally 10 weaned piglets would nice. I figured it cost $300-$360 a year per sow with the feed I'm getting, again depending on corn prices. So 10 piglets at $60 a is $600 and twice a year is $1200. So after feed it would be $800 or under.but then figure spreading the cost of my boar and all the straw and wood shavings for winter time and that price goes down even more. Then I never count my time or the cost of buildings cause I share pens with other farm animals here and there, but mainly just pigs. And of course it's not always$60 a head, sometimes it's only $40. So this is why I was wondering what I could do make sure I've got good breeders cause ever little honker is the difference between me making it or going under fast. Lol I refuse to go under! Lol. I do need to count tits more and take closer looks at those when buying! I've got a few with 14 tits but won't be ready to breed until March.by then I'll prolly have a different boar.ill definitely look at the site you linked also, thank you for that. And don't you still need a teaser boar to ai??

 

[Bossroo]

The large horse breeding farms use some type of pony breed or small statured stallion as a teaser to detect heat in mares. You could keep a small breed boar to do the teasing to save on feed and bedding, etc.