**Well 2 goats with CL, What next?****

[Straw Hat Kikos]

My one doe may have it. She has not been tested for it but everything is consistent with CL so I'm sure she has it. Nobody else has ever had a lump and she has only had one.

Rolls - She has a few pets goats. Shes not a big time breeder like you are. I don't think she sells them in the same way you do. I know she is just starting out and I know when I was just starting out I wasn't looking for anything more than some goats that I can use for milk and to love (Nigerians not Kikos)If you are a breeder and doing things like you are then yeah, it's better to cull. She's in a completely different situation.

I disagree. It doesn't take long and it's not hard to clean it out. You could do it in 15-20 minutes with two people. The separating part can be a pain though.

And I do agree about that. I would not do that at all. I don't know where the site is but I read something about that. It is very painful and I believe it can cause harm. There are some issues with it. So I wouldn't really do that but the rest is not a big deal esp. for someone who has some pets goats that they love. It not that hard and doesn't take a long time and she said they have never had a lump, they may never get one!!

 

[Pearce Pastures]

When it comes to CL, what your purpose is for the goats should be considered. If they are pets only, I can see keeping them and taking care of them as you would any pet. If they are going to be used for show or breeding/selling, then keeping a postive animal does run the risk of spreading CL to other people's goats whom they love, have spent time and money on, and probably would rather that their animals not have this disease.

 

[chubbydog811]

I've only dealt with CAE, not CL, but I will be completely honest in telling you I culled every single animal that was positive. 3 got sold as pet only does to a friend, and 2 went to my freezer. If it were CL, every single one would have gone in the ground.

Yes, it does depend on what you plan on doing with them. If they are just pets, and you aren't planning on selling them/their offspring, go ahead and keep them. If you are looking at selling to other people, I would cull (or be kind enough to raise/test the kids to ensure they are clean when they get sold).

It isn't the end of the world, but really, these issues could be demolished if people stopped feeling bad and culled when these things popped up (applying to the ones who sell infected animals).
I run a small dairy, and a clean herd is on top of my list of important things. I was EXTREMELY irate when I found out someone had sold me a CAE infected milking doe. She infected 2 other does and many bottle kids. I lost a lot of kids because of CAE. Not culled, but because of issues that came with the CAE.

Anyway, agreeing with those who said it - it really completely depends on what you want to do with them, and how motivated you are to care for them if/when an abscess pops up.

 

[jodief100]

CL can spread to humnas but does not present in the same way it does in animals. It will give a person a skin rash. So do be careful. We have dealt with it over the years and we handle it by vaccinating, seperating and isolating. We do not lance the abcesses, our goats are too wild. I haven't seen one in over a year so I too, hope we have eliminated it.

Whatever you decide to do, it is a very personal thing. While I disagee with culling an animal for it, I know others will think you foolish not to.

We have used Case-Bac off label to vaccinate but there is a ogoat approved vaccine on the market now.

Consider what your goats are for and what your potential market is. If they are meat goats, I would not be too concered as most will be terminal animals. The abcesses do not affect goats internally as frequently as they do sheep so carcass rejection is less of a possibility. If they are dairy goats this will be different but since I don't sell dairy goats I cannot advise you there. If they are show animals, I think it would be irresponsible to bring an infected animal to a show where it is exposed to other people's animals. I know that it has happened and not always unknowningly. Not everyone feels the same way and agian I dont' deal in show animals so I am not the best person to advise there.

 

[Queen Mum]

Culling, I think, is an individual choice. I think the factors are based on, a number of things. But ultimately it comes down to how much the animal is worth to the individual owner in terms of time and emotional investment. Even farmers who have to make financial choices still make keep an animal that is costing them money because of an emotional decision. So, if there is a way to manage CL, and it can be done safely, any source for doing so is worth knowing about and considering.

For what it is worth, while in Washington, I hade one of the best goat vets in the world. She helped me review Suzanne Gasparetto's website, the Fias Co Farms website and alot of the info on this website to vet for accuracy and for veterinary standard of practice because she knew that I was moving and would not necessarily have a goat vet. She didn't find anything lacking.

AND she agreed with what Straw Hat Kikos said about CL. She taught me all of what he just related in case one of my goats ever came up positive or I had to help someone else with a CL positive goat.

Fortunately I don't have a goat with CL.

 

[Marianne]

I've been there; CL is a nusiance that I never want to deal with again. Had CL absesses pop up on not one, but two healthy does while they were nursing kids. Pregnancy and nursing probably lowered their bodies' ability to fight it. The key is not to let any of the exudate contaminate your pens and pastures! As long as you keep the problem contained in the goat -- you are fairly safe. At this point, I would want to be sure it's CL! If it is, there are ways to treat the absesses -- incision and clean out or Formalin injection. Have done both. Keeping up with one or two goats might be OK using either process; but, for me, having potential for treating more goats with the problem was just over the top. I no longer have any goats from the original herd. To lessen contamination pens/pastures have been treated with Trisodium Phosphate and we have had a very hot, dry summer (unfriendly to bacteria). Every goat in our pasture has had the new CL VACCINE. Just hope the vaccine (which may reduce possible contamination by 80%) is as good as touted.

 

[20kidsonhill]

We also vaccinate. And we highly recommend vaccinating.

 

[Straw Hat Kikos]

This is a great thread!! So many people have given there idea and thoughts on the matter and all well thought out and well said. There are a fair amount of CL threads here and this is the best of both sides.

Couple notes though. CL does not condemn a goat. It can still be eaten. Just remove the lump(s) and now you have yourself a meat goat. I wouldn't recommend eating one with Internal CL but that's more a sheep disease.

Also CAE and CL are VERY different. Alot of people lump them together in a sense. They think they are both very bad. CL isn't so bad but CAE is far worse imo.

I agree that if you are showing then CULL the animal. That would be very wrong to spread it to someone else's goats because you brought it to a show.


Queen Mum. You made my day lol

 

[babsbag]

I would like to know what the test results actually are, not just + or -, but what are the actual numbers? UC Davis stated in one of their news letters that the results can be as high as 1:128 and the animal still be negative. They used to say that it was anything over 1:8. I have 2 does that have titers of 1:16 and 1:32 and in the 4 years I have owned them I have never seen an abcess.

Sorry you are dealing with this, the uncertainty is not fun.

 

[Arabiansnob]

So I have a few questions? When you say it stays in the soil, when winter come would the frost and snow kill it? Because it getting really cold up her in Maine. And the only way it can be passed to the other animal, is if the negative goat ingests or gets the pus from a positive goat in a wound they have? Am i correct? Now to clean the stall areas can I use Bleach? and will have have to wash very thoroughly to get all the bleach out as to not hurt the goat if they for some reason lick the walls? My last question is they can get it from drinking out of the same water troth can they?