What's the best grain to feed a hard keeper?

[Arabian Horse]

I've been feeding my hard keeper sweet feed. Will that put weight on him? I think it's Producers Choice Sweet Feed.

Any luck with it?

 

[zzGypsy]

we've had better luck putting weight on hard keepers by adding fat, rather than adding sweet feeds or grain. you can use any vege oil, corn, canolla, saflower, etc. (up to 1 Cup per 1000 lbs of horse) or the equivalent in rice bran or black oil sunflower seeds. carbo/grain/sweet feeds increase the risk of founder and colic, and can stick the horse's accelerator to the floor, making them harder to manage... and still not put the weight on.

oil can be pored over pellets or hay cubes or beet pulp (or they can be soaked in a little water then the oil.) like all feed changes, this needs to be done gradually.

of course, you'll want to make sure that all other issues have been looked at as well - have a fecal done for worms (in case your wormers are not working effectively), check for sand in their gut, have their teeth checked for hooks or points or other issues, make sure there isn't some other underlying issue. (we've had horses lose weight because of a hoof abscess - but not show any lameness.) if you've done all that, a change of feed may be in order. we add some alfalfa if they've been on all-grass hay and add fat. it's really worked well. we've had a number of starved rescues and a couple of general hard-keepers that this has worked for, so far it's been 100%.

 

[Arabian Horse]

we've had better luck putting weight on hard keepers by adding fat, rather than adding sweet feeds or grain. you can use any vege oil, corn, canolla, saflower, etc. (up to 1 Cup per 1000 lbs of horse) or the equivalent in rice bran or black oil sunflower seeds. carbo/grain/sweet feeds increase the risk of founder and colic, and can stick the horse's accelerator to the floor, making them harder to manage... and still not put the weight on.

oil can be pored over pellets or hay cubes or beet pulp (or they can be soaked in a little water then the oil.) like all feed changes, this needs to be done gradually.

of course, you'll want to make sure that all other issues have been looked at as well - have a fecal done for worms (in case your wormers are not working effectively), check for sand in their gut, have their teeth checked for hooks or points or other issues, make sure there isn't some other underlying issue. (we've had horses lose weight because of a hoof abscess - but not show any lameness.) if you've done all that, a change of feed may be in order. we add some alfalfa if they've been on all-grass hay and add fat. it's really worked well. we've had a number of starved rescues and a couple of general hard-keepers that this has worked for, so far it's been 100%.

We have been giving him Corn Oil. It seemed to help. We finally ran out of it and never got any more.

Thank you!

 

[LauraM]

I'm going to copy and paste from some posts I made here recently. Save some typing.
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First, you will need to get in the habit of weighing your feed......there is NO WAY of know the nutrition in a "scoop." You must know how much the feed weighs that is being fed to the horse. How many pounds is the horse getting? That is the only way to know how many calories the horse is getting. Feed labels are in pounds. The nutritional information is always in weight. You therefore have to weigh what you are feeding the horse in order to actually know what sort of nutrition it is getting.

Now, as to what sort of feed......remember that cereal grains provide ENERGY far more efficiently than they provide weight (fat). Therefore, you give cereal grains (oats, corn, barley, etc) and feeds based on them, for energy to perform as you may need the horse to perform for competitions (this is why a "backyard" horse should not have feeds with cereal grains in them, they don't NEED that sort of energy!). If you need to increase a horse's weight, you want to provide sources of fat. Fat sources are FAR more efficient for weight gain but they don't provide the necessary energy that some upper level competition horses might need to stay competitive. In those cases, you would combine grains with fat sources, if you have a competition horse that is not holding weight.

For something like the commercial mixed feeds, they have a mix of cereal grains and fortify them with vitamins and minerals and protein (which is what the 12%, 16% etc. refers to), but the fortification of those feeds (particularly when you see the protein as low as 12%) is very light, so if you read the bag, you'll see that it recommends the horse be given generally 6-8 pounds of feed daily, just to meet minimum recommended daily nutrition numbers. This is FAR more cereal grains than most horses need! But if you feed less than that, then the horse does not get all the vitamins, minerals, and protein it may need, particularly if it is a hard keeper or is being worked. Even a horse in medium work often doesn't need the energy provided by 6-8 pounds of sweet feeds, yet they won't keep weight on because they are not having their daily nutritional needs met.

Fat sources are things like rice bran, whole flax seed (which also provides high-quality protein), corn oil (though it does not provide any other nutrition as the rice bran or flax seed does, it will put weight on), beet pulp, ect.

Again, you must weigh the feed to make sure you are giving adequate amounts.

Now, all THAT being said..........horses FIRST AND FOREMOST need forage. NO CONCENTRATE FEED you give the horse will keep weight on it if it does not get enough forage. How much forage is enough depends on the horse.

So, to sum it up, you first need to give the horse free choice hay. This means hay in front of it at all times. As much as it will eat. Seriously, that is critical. This is where the bulk of your money should be spent. Buy extra hay if you need, but start here.

Then, you should give a ration balancer, like Buckeye's Gro-N-Win, or Foxden Equine's LinPro, VitaFlex's Accel, or Purina's Born to Win, ect. There are a lot out there and pretty much every company makes one now.

If the horse needs energy to perform at a competitive level, you can add in whole oats (the "safest" cereal grain for horses) and increasing the amount as needed. You can even use your current feed, since at a "scoop," it's probably not more than a couple of pounds.

However, if you don't want your horse to have a pretty substantial increase in energy, then do not increase the cereal grains (sweet feed), but instead add a fat source, like rice bran, whole flax seed, beet pulp, oil, etc.

If you want to read up on equine nutrition, a really marvelous book is The Horse Nutrition Handbook By Melyni Worth

One rule of thumb when figuring out where to start with hay.........an easy keeper, doing no work, needs at least 1% of it's body weight in hay per day. So if a horse weighs 1000 lbs, it will need at least 10 pounds of good quality hay per day, just to stand there. A hard keeper or one who is working constantly, can need at least 2.5% of it's body weight in good quality hay (25 lbs of hay). If your hay is stemmy (late cut) or of a less nutrition type of grass, the horse may need more than those numbers.

These numbers are just to MAINTAIN the CURRENT weight. You'll need to feed more for a horse to gain weight.........that's why, for weight gain, free choice access to hay is best.

However, when buying hay, it's helpful to have some sort of figure in mind.

Therefore, you'll need to weigh several bales (or ask whomever makes the hay how much the bales typically weigh....they will know) so you know how much of that bale to feed. Alternatively, you can weigh yourself, then fill a hay net and weigh yourself holding the haynet to get an average idea of how much the hay will fit in the net. Of course, you'll also need to use a weight tape measure on your horse.

Increasing the concentrates, without providing adequate forage (hay) will almost guarantee ulcers, particularly in a competition animal......and often will cause other problems.

You may also want to check on the de-worming schedule. That may need to be adjusted or increased. Taking a fecal sample to your vet will determine if there are any problems with worms that could be causing weight loss.

Teeth also.....make sure his teeth are healthy and don't need to be floated or have any abscesses, broken areas, etc that would make chewing difficult or uncomfortable.


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Hope all that helps.

 

[zzGypsy]

LauraM that was excellent and comprehensive

 

[Beekissed]

I'd also explore the reasons your horse is a hard keeper. Are there adjustments to his health that would help him absorb better the nutrients you provide? An animal with poor nutrient absorption can eat until the feed comes out it's ears and still not put on good weight. Probios can help with this but I've not seen as much results with the commercially sold probios as I have with simple Braggs ACV in the feed, in the water or even drenched.

Also, feeding the correct loose mineral might help supplement any feed you have to improve your animal's feed efficiency. I like everything I've read about Kelp Meal and how it balances out an animal's system and even prevents pink eye. I found it to be a good, all-stock mineral supplement for my cows, sheep, chickens and even my dogs.

 

[Arabian Horse]

This is VERY helpful!!! THANK YOU!!

 

[Arabian Horse]

Oh, I forgot one important fact, he is older. 17 years old I think.

 

[LauraM]

This is VERY helpful!!! THANK YOU!!

You're welcome.

Oh, I forgot one important fact, he is older. 17 years old I think.

That should not be a problem.......most horses that age are not yet considered "geriatric." My horse is 17 and I do not feed him anything special. The only thing I that the age might call for, in general, is to have his teeth checked twice yearly instead of once yearly. As they get older they often experience more mal-occlusions.

 

[twentynine]

we've had better luck putting weight on hard keepers by adding fat, rather than adding sweet feeds or grain. you can use any vege oil, corn, canolla, saflower, etc. (up to 1 Cup per 1000 lbs of horse) or the equivalent in rice bran or black oil sunflower seeds. carbo/grain/sweet feeds increase the risk of founder and colic, and can stick the horse's accelerator to the floor, making them harder to manage... and still not put the weight on.

oil can be pored over pellets or hay cubes or beet pulp (or they can be soaked in a little water then the oil.) like all feed changes, this needs to be done gradually.

of course, you'll want to make sure that all other issues have been looked at as well - have a fecal done for worms (in case your wormers are not working effectively), check for sand in their gut, have their teeth checked for hooks or points or other issues, make sure there isn't some other underlying issue. (we've had horses lose weight because of a hoof abscess - but not show any lameness.) if you've done all that, a change of feed may be in order. we add some alfalfa if they've been on all-grass hay and add fat. it's really worked well. we've had a number of starved rescues and a couple of general hard-keepers that this has worked for, so far it's been 100%.

We have been giving him Corn Oil. It seemed to help. We finally ran out of it and never got any more.

Thank you!

Make it easy on yourself. Go buy some more corn oil. Stay with what was working.