Worming, is it really necessary?

[Iwantgoats]

Pretty new to goating and not sure about worming your goats. I have a horse and know we have to worm him every 6-8 weeks. How often do goats get wormed? What do you suggest or use? How old do they have to be when you start?

Also wondering what vaccines people use or recommend? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[poorboys]

WORMING IS VERY INPORTANT!! CHECK EYELIDS, THEY NEED TO BE RED OR BRIGHT PINK, I WORM AT 6WEEKS, AND YOU ALSO NEED TO DO COCIDA PREVENTION STARTING AT 3 WEEKS, DI-METHOX 40% IS WHAT I USE FIRST DAY 1CC PER 5# DAY 2,3,4,5 1CC PER 10# EVERY 21 DAYS, THESE TWO ARE KILLERS IN BABIES, ALSO CDT SHOTS, AND I GIVE PNUEMONIA SHOTS YEARLY, BOSE, I USUALLY WORM ABOUT EVERY 3 MONTHS, OR SOONER IF I FEEL THEY NEED IT. BUT PREVENTION IS GOING TO BE YOUR GREATEST TOOL, GOOD LUCK AND MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE WILL HAVE MORE INFO FOR YOU PATTY

 

[Roll farms]

Don't deworm on a schedule like you've done w/ horses...PLEASE read the info in the links provided below....

Seriously, folks, worms are the # 1 issue w/ goats (IMHO) and we've GOT to get a handle on it.

http://www.extension.org/pages/19651/goat-dewormers

The major problem encountered in controlling nematode parasitism in goats is the resistance that many worm populations -- specifically H. contortus --have developed to essentially all of our dewormers. Resistance has developed primarily because dewormers have been used and rotated too frequently and many times under-dosing occurs. Continuing to use such a dewormer will increase the selection of more resistant worms which will eventually result in a population of "superworms" that cant be controlled with drugs. There is no silver bullet one can rely upon. Resistance is genetically controlled, and once established, it is set in the population, and those dewormers can no longer be used effectively.

http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/training/parasites.html#ip

Smart use of dewormers

The most important aspect of using dewormers is to conserve their effectiveness. This can be achieved by using them as little as possible and only when infection levels dictate that intervention is necessary. The old concepts of treat all animals when a few show signs or all animals at regular intervals (shorter than every 3-4 months) is no longer warranted because it promotes dewormer resistance. Even if new dewormers are discovered and marketed (which is a long way down the line), they should not be used indiscriminately as that is the reason the dewormer resistance problem has evolved.

It would be prudent to establish which dewormers are effective against a worm population. This can be achieved by conducting FEC reduction testing and should be done by a qualified professional such as a veterinarian, veterinary school parasitology lab or a diagnostic lab that offers such a service. However, FEC are not hard to do, but a microscope is required. The procedures for conducting a FEC are available on the SCSRPC and other websites. The concept is to do FEC before and after (10-14 days) treatment. If the counts after treatment are "0" (essentially 100% reduction), the dewormer is very effective. However, this should not be expected with most of the dewormers and the best one (highest % reduction) should be considered for use only when there are no other options, thus extending its useful life. Fecal egg count reduction testing may seem somewhat expensive, but it will be worth the effort and expense to know what you have. The worst thing is not knowing and continuing down the wrong path. Once the most effective dewomer has been selected, using it along with others needs to be done "smartly." Some of these "smart" concepts are:

Do not use the most effective dewormer exclusively unless it is the only dewormer that works. Reserve its use for deworming those animals which need it the most and use less effective dewormers otherwise.

If one feels the need to rotate dewomers, do so at yearly intervals and rotate between classes. Using the most effective in each class.

Only deworm those animals that need to be dewormed and not the whole population. As a general rule, a minority of the population harbors the majority of the worm population, thus most of the animals may not need deworming and it is not prudent to do so. By doing this, much of the worm population is not exposed to the dewormer and development of resistance can be slowed substantially. This is where the FAMACHA monitoring system comes into play.

If there is substantial resistance to all dewomers tested, increasing the dosage may help with some or using combinations (from different classes, levamisole and albendazole has been used successfully) may improve effectiveness. Another concept that has also been reported to have some success in improving effectiveness is to take animals off feed for 24 hour before administering the dewomer. This will reduce rumen motility and the dewomer will pass through the gut slower and have more contact time with the target worms.

Do not deworm and move to clean pasture (no animal grazing for at least 3 months) as those worms that survive dewoming are probably resistant and then the new pasture will become more highly contaminated with eggs/larvae of resistant worms. That is not what one needs when trying to combat these parasites.

 

[freemotion]

There are areas where worms in goats are so resistant that it has become very dangerous to the health of the animals. So in order NOT to create resistance in your goats and on your property, worm only as needed, not by the calendar.

Use the FAMACHA chart and regular fecal exams to determine when to worm and what types of worms you are dealing with. I am fortunate that I rarely need to worm on my property. Goats are fairly new here, so that may change as the years go by, but so far, so good.

Fecal exams done by the vets here cost $22 each, so I got the equipment and learned to do my own. I can monitor things and get results within an hour if needed. There have been times when other indicators said worms are a possibility but fecal exams ruled it out, so I did not contribute to resistance, yay! But I will worm right away if the FAMACHA score is low. That can happen overnight if an animal is stressed in other ways....a move (even within the property) and the like.

Skip pellets and other weak and cheap wormers that will contribute to resistance.

I use herbals, they work reasonably well here. On my property. I also have Ivomec in the fridge and have used it on occasion.

ETA: Ooops, someone who knows WAY more than I do already posted!

 

[BlackSheepOrganics]

Thank you both for posting that great info! Worms are a huge issue in our area. We too do our own fecal exams out of necessity.

I'm off to read through the links yall provided. Thanks again!

 

[babsbag]

AND YOU ALSO NEED TO DO COCIDA PREVENTION STARTING AT 3 WEEKS, DI-METHOX 40% IS WHAT I USE FIRST DAY 1CC PER 5# DAY 2,3,4,5 1CC PER 10# EVERY 21 DAYS, THESE TWO ARE KILLERS IN BABIES

This is my 3rd year with kids being born on our property, and the 4th year we have had goats. I do not do coccidia prevention and have not had it in my kids. (I do get it in my chicks, but I believe it is a different strain, please tell me if I am wrong.)

Am I walking on dangerous ground by not doing prevention? Is it only a matter of time as our soil becomes more "goatie"? Does doing prevention for cocci increase the resisitance to drugs the same as over-worming? I am not fond of drugs and I use them sparingly, when I really need them.

My goats have about an acre that they live on and it is dry pasture. Worms are not one of our problems, at all. Is coccidia more likely in wet/damp soil or does it care? (I know it isn't a worm)

 

[Roll farms]

We didn't have a problem for 2 or 3 years either....and then suddenly I lost 4 kids in a couple of weeks time....BUT I had brought home a new doe who the vet said had a "virulent strain" of cocci.

Have you had a fecal ran to verify, or are you basing that on not having had any sick kids?

I would advocate doing cocci prev. only if you bring home something new, or if you start seeing problems.
Maybe have a fecal ran on 2 kids just to get a ballpark count on oocysts.

It's possible your dryer conditions are helping out, too.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Cocci thrives during wet sprngs and summers, there is no way we would have a single goat with out treating for cocci. If we don't treat by week 3 or 4 after kidding, we would loose most of our kid crop, I am sure location matters, and like Roll said, the strain matters.

 

[helmstead]

We didn't have a problem for 2 or 3 years either....and then suddenly I lost 4 kids in a couple of weeks time....BUT I had brought home a new doe who the vet said had a "virulent strain" of cocci.

Have you had a fecal ran to verify, or are you basing that on not having had any sick kids?

I would advocate doing cocci prev. only if you bring home something new, or if you start seeing problems.
Maybe have a fecal ran on 2 kids just to get a ballpark count on oocysts.

It's possible your dryer conditions are helping out, too.

Same with us...we had no issues with cocci until we bought a goat with a NO FUN gram positive strain that he had sort of managed to live 3 mos with, and that pretty much instantly killed 4 of our babies, then him. We were fairly new to goats then (was only our 2nd round of babies) - talk about a crash course in cocci.

And yes, chickens and goats don't share their strains of cocci. Chickens CAN spread goat cocci everywhere when they're housed together tho - like into water buckets and feed troughs - with their little chicken feet. So we don't house our chickens and goats together anymore. (this is how the above goat's happy little cocci got into our baby pen back in the day)

 

[BlackSheepOrganics]

Helmstead and Rolls, thank you so much for sharing that info with us.

We have not been treating for cocci. I have brought home goats to care for that had been treated for it, I have bought goats that have been on prevention for it, but have not really had to deal with it here yet.

Are there conditions that lend to the cocci? We're not in a dry area but I know if it can go wrong, it will with our goats so I guess I want to know what can be done to prevent it becoming a problem (other than just treatment)?