Roll farms
Spot Master
If you want to click on website by my name < over there...I have some cocci info on the 'raisin' babies' page wayyyy down at the bottom of my site navigation.
Worming, is it really necessary?
- Thread starter Iwantgoats
- Start date
Read this, the first part is horses, the second is goats!! It doesn't go into huge detail, but some good bits.
Btw, I don't worm my horse. Check your horses fecals monthly, worming is the fast track to a severely destroyed gut and nervous system.
http://www.holistichorse.com/Diseas...-equines-and-herbal-worming-alternatives.html
Btw, I don't worm my horse. Check your horses fecals monthly, worming is the fast track to a severely destroyed gut and nervous system.
http://www.holistichorse.com/Diseas...-equines-and-herbal-worming-alternatives.html
babsbag
Herd Master
I have not done one this year as our first kids aren't due until the middle of April. Last year no sign of it, or of any other parasites, in the kids or the does. How lucky is that?Roll farms said:
But we have had a very very wet March so if there ever will be problems due to wet/soggy ground this would be the year.
I will just have to be super watchful and will probably be a paranoid goat mom. I dam raise my kids so what is the usual age that cocci makes an appearance?
Roll farms
Spot Master
Incubation is around 21 days....I start treatment at 3 wks, just to nip the evil buggers in the bud.
Holding my sweet babies as they died was enough to convince me that it was NEVER going to happen here AGAIN.
I don't LIKE medicating any more than the next person. Nor do I like spending money on medication....But...I like dead babies even less.
Now that it's here, I WILL NOT take chances.
The year after that, I tried to get by with using medicated feed....per my vet's suggestion.
It did no good...a 3 week old kid cannot / will not eat enough of the feed to get the deccox or rumensin in the feed up to therapuetic levels to prevent an outbreak.
So one of my 5 wk old kids scoured that year, and I take a poo sample in to the vet, and it's cocci...I was like, "But...Dr. P....you TOLD me to use medicated feed..."
After that, I quit listening to her (well intentioned but no practical experience w/ it at the time) and did my own research.
I didn't lose any kids that year, but the cocci DID stunt several of them and they just didn't grow like I like / want / need, since this is my 'bidness'.
More power to those who can avoid prevention treatment, good for you, and I envy you.
I know I don't have that luxury.
Since starting the stringent prevention program w/ DiMethox, my kids do SO well, most can even be bred their 1st fall.
My current crop of yearling does have all kidded or should any day.
Holding my sweet babies as they died was enough to convince me that it was NEVER going to happen here AGAIN.
I don't LIKE medicating any more than the next person. Nor do I like spending money on medication....But...I like dead babies even less.
Now that it's here, I WILL NOT take chances.
The year after that, I tried to get by with using medicated feed....per my vet's suggestion.
It did no good...a 3 week old kid cannot / will not eat enough of the feed to get the deccox or rumensin in the feed up to therapuetic levels to prevent an outbreak.
So one of my 5 wk old kids scoured that year, and I take a poo sample in to the vet, and it's cocci...I was like, "But...Dr. P....you TOLD me to use medicated feed..."
After that, I quit listening to her (well intentioned but no practical experience w/ it at the time) and did my own research.
I didn't lose any kids that year, but the cocci DID stunt several of them and they just didn't grow like I like / want / need, since this is my 'bidness'.
More power to those who can avoid prevention treatment, good for you, and I envy you.
I know I don't have that luxury.
Since starting the stringent prevention program w/ DiMethox, my kids do SO well, most can even be bred their 1st fall.
My current crop of yearling does have all kidded or should any day.
BlackSheepOrganics
Ridin' The Range
I read through your cocci info on your website, Rolls and will continue to read through the links you provided as well. Thank you for those!
I've seen the results of goats with cocci out of control. The last one I saw was anemic and we had to give it a blood transfusion from my buck. It also had other worms but the cocci were out of control. The iron level was registering so low our vet could not believe she was not dead (we brought her home like this as my daughter has a habit of "rescuing" animals). We did a total of 2 transfusions, 5 days apart. She never lost her urge to eat and never lost her "sassy". Once she no longer had the parasite overload she was able to bounce back but it took her a bit.
I've been lazy with my goats in this herd and just been watching for an overload and thus far none. I know it will happen. I don't know anyone in this area who has had goats for a while who has not had a run in with cocci that has cost them at least a few goats. I need to get a game plan together and do it before it is an issue and I'm trying to play catch-up.
We prefer all natural treatments as much as possible, but I would have to agree in that I'll treat an animal with medications before I'll put it through a torturous death so I could hang on to some principle of my own. It's a very individual decision but our family is trying to find the balance between all natural and modern medicines and making sure we're not going overboard in either direction to the detriment of our animals. I don't envy anyone all the deicions you have to make in this regard. It stinks! We've yet to figure it all out and I seriously doubt we ever will have it completely solved.
I've seen the results of goats with cocci out of control. The last one I saw was anemic and we had to give it a blood transfusion from my buck. It also had other worms but the cocci were out of control. The iron level was registering so low our vet could not believe she was not dead (we brought her home like this as my daughter has a habit of "rescuing" animals). We did a total of 2 transfusions, 5 days apart. She never lost her urge to eat and never lost her "sassy". Once she no longer had the parasite overload she was able to bounce back but it took her a bit.
I've been lazy with my goats in this herd and just been watching for an overload and thus far none. I know it will happen. I don't know anyone in this area who has had goats for a while who has not had a run in with cocci that has cost them at least a few goats. I need to get a game plan together and do it before it is an issue and I'm trying to play catch-up.
We prefer all natural treatments as much as possible, but I would have to agree in that I'll treat an animal with medications before I'll put it through a torturous death so I could hang on to some principle of my own. It's a very individual decision but our family is trying to find the balance between all natural and modern medicines and making sure we're not going overboard in either direction to the detriment of our animals. I don't envy anyone all the deicions you have to make in this regard. It stinks! We've yet to figure it all out and I seriously doubt we ever will have it completely solved.
AlaskanShepherdess
Ridin' The Range
In the book Natural Goat Care by Pat Coleby she says that a copper deficient goat will have worm overload. She said that when her goats had all the copper they needed they didn't not have worm overloads. I cannot say anything from experience, so take it with a grain of salt. But I thought the theory is interesting.
Deborah at Antiquity Oaks had vet after vet tell her that her goats were not copper deficient, it was impossible because where they lived was not copper deficient. But she finally tested the liver of a goat who died and it was definitely copper deficient. So copper deficiency can occur even in places that the soil is not copper deficient.
As far as Cocci prevention. I lost a doeling most likely to cocci when I was only weeks into my goat "experience", so prevention is something I am definitely on board with, but I'm not going to use medication.
Fir Meadow has a herbal formula called GI Sooth that I bought. It is supposed to help prevent the diarrhea as well as killing the cocci and another common scours causing bacteria. I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I can't wait to see how it does.
Deborah at Antiquity Oaks had vet after vet tell her that her goats were not copper deficient, it was impossible because where they lived was not copper deficient. But she finally tested the liver of a goat who died and it was definitely copper deficient. So copper deficiency can occur even in places that the soil is not copper deficient.
As far as Cocci prevention. I lost a doeling most likely to cocci when I was only weeks into my goat "experience", so prevention is something I am definitely on board with, but I'm not going to use medication.
Fir Meadow has a herbal formula called GI Sooth that I bought. It is supposed to help prevent the diarrhea as well as killing the cocci and another common scours causing bacteria. I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I can't wait to see how it does.
BlackSheepOrganics
Ridin' The Range
Please let me know how it does work?
Again, I'm all for natural ways, but if that doesn't work, I will medicate before I'll let an animal suffer. I know it is part of life to watch suffering happen, but I guess I just haven't matured enough to deal with it well. I get downright desperate when my babies (children or animals) are hurting.
Again, I'm all for natural ways, but if that doesn't work, I will medicate before I'll let an animal suffer. I know it is part of life to watch suffering happen, but I guess I just haven't matured enough to deal with it well. I get downright desperate when my babies (children or animals) are hurting.
Our7Wonders
Overrun with beasties
I am using Molly's herbals as preventative and am running fecals regularly (last week, 3 weeks post kidding and my doe looked GREAT, only one egg found!) My kiddos are all on the cocci prevention protocol with the same herbs - getting weekly doses. I'll be keeping di-methox on hand, though, just in case. I don't want to risk my babies.
I read Pat Coleby's book as well and because of it, along with funky coat issues on my doe I decided to copper bolus - they'd never had copper before beyond the little loose mineral that they'd been given. It's not how she recommends giving the copper but the copper sulfate makes me just a little nervous as of yet.
I'm with you BlackSheep. I totally believe in sticking to natural as much as possible - but not at the risk of watching my goats suffer and die. I stand by that same philosophy for the health and well being of my family as well. We are pro-active with our health. We try to eat healthy, supplement naturally, and use natural preventatives. On the rare occasion that we do catch some sort of bug that needs treatment beyond what I can do with my natural medicinals then we seek help. I don't wait until my kids are suffering - and I think that's the key, recognizing when we need help. We are blessed to have a pediatrician who supports our decisions and lets me know when he thinks it's time for something more aggressive. I wish I had a vet like our pediatrician.
I read Pat Coleby's book as well and because of it, along with funky coat issues on my doe I decided to copper bolus - they'd never had copper before beyond the little loose mineral that they'd been given. It's not how she recommends giving the copper but the copper sulfate makes me just a little nervous as of yet.
I'm with you BlackSheep. I totally believe in sticking to natural as much as possible - but not at the risk of watching my goats suffer and die. I stand by that same philosophy for the health and well being of my family as well. We are pro-active with our health. We try to eat healthy, supplement naturally, and use natural preventatives. On the rare occasion that we do catch some sort of bug that needs treatment beyond what I can do with my natural medicinals then we seek help. I don't wait until my kids are suffering - and I think that's the key, recognizing when we need help. We are blessed to have a pediatrician who supports our decisions and lets me know when he thinks it's time for something more aggressive. I wish I had a vet like our pediatrician.
